Al Jazeera English: VIDEO: Peru's animal-trade problem

[SealLion]

Well folksies. I guess it's time I quit my hiatus from the news.
Time for a revival, I guess.

I guess I've been absent for awhile cuz at one point, I was working out of town returned to earth and decided to give myself an infrequent break from the internet.
I guess now I'm swimming back in the sea.

anyways, let's go see what's up with the news:

Apparently, the animal trade exist's also in South America. In all honesty, I didn't realize it as much as I understand the Asian, African, Russian, and North American illegal animal trade.

Understand one thing here though. A lot of poachers, such as in places in Africa poach for the sake of providing money to feed their families.

In places such as China, I am sure that your aware of the fact, that animal goods are used for traditional medicine-related reasons.

That's been going on for eons.

Since somethings go on for eons and eons, I don't think that it's particularly easy to stop, let alone slow down such practices.

But with the trade of live animals by collectors, and even zoos I am sure in some possibly few and rare cases, animals are taken from the wild, drugged to keep them from making noises and as well as to hold them in small containers, for example (as you'll see in this video), shipped overseas, and taken as pets for their new owners because the exportation laws in their home countries doesn't allow such animals to be imported.

For various reason, I am sure your aware of: HINT: think illegal animal trade, depletion of wildlife numbers of certain animals.

The main drive over this issue of illegal trading of live animals of course is nothing but money and some stature by the person who will eventually own some exotic animal that he's paid a high price for getting to him.

Getting back to the brief issue that I made above of zoos trading illegally in animals, it is widely known that Indonesia has developed into such practices.
In some cases, the illegal trade of animals in places such as Indonesia involves in-situ conservation areas within Indonesia.

In some cases, involvement in the illegal trade of endangered animals is common practice. So think about that the next time that you go abroad on Safari or some exotic place and visit a conservation area.

Now, I'm not saying that all conservation areas and zoos do such things, I'm just making you aware that these things do occur.

I can't recall specifics, but I think that at one point, a director from a zoo in Berlin, Germany was accused of over-breeding certain animals and selling the extra animals that he had bred, to other zoos or animal collectors or even to be taken as delicacies of some sort in China.

Correct me if I"m wrong on the above statement if you please.

What was the drive for this zoo director from Berlin: Money no doubt.

so you see, the illegal trade of either live or dead animals (and their parts) occurs worldwide. It doesn't just occur in places like in Africa which is well known for Ivory trade issues.
It's everywhere.

So here's the news now:

From monkeys to macaws, private collectors can get their hands on most endangered animals, if they are willing to pay the price.

The trafficking of wild animals generates some $20bn a year worldwide.

that's a lot of coin, folks. LIke anything else, it's money that drives people to such ends.
Much like large companies like Boeing that make and sell war-planes or big pharma-companies that over-price the cost of their pills, money also drives the illegal animal trade.

20 billion dollars ( the report doesn't give the denomination of the currency, but it's probably USD) is a lot of coin. Though, I'm willing to bet it's probably larger than that.

Most obviously, animal traders from Europe and North America pay big bucks for such commodities.
And that is exactly what animals in such a trade have become: commodities.

Hard to swallow the pill, isn't it??

I should not forget one thing here and that is that when you go to a pet store, the pet's you buy are actually commodities themselves, yes??

Yet while rare animals live in cages, not a single human trafficker has served any time behind bars.

I have no idea why the term 'human trafficker' is used in that above statement. I have no idea of the correlation between human trafficking and animal trafficking.

If that statement talks about illegal human trafficking then I have this to say:

I find that last statement kind of hard to believe. I can't see how not a single person accused of human trafficking anywhere on earth, has not seen the inside of a jail.
But that's just my opinion.

Human trafficking occurs in places such as Asia and Russia (prostitution) and Mexico (illegal trafficking) and Europe (also prostitution).

If it is about people trafficking in illegal trade of animals, I also find that statement kind of hard to believe.
People do get caught one way or another.

And again, if that last statement is about people trafficking in the illegal trade of live animals, who's also guilty then??
The collector for sure.
If they can afford the high price being offered for some exotic animal, I'm sure they can afford the high fine associated with being caught with it.

I am of the opinion that such people from Europe and North America are poor in moral spirit and ethics. But moral spirit and poor ethics, I guess are not really the issue.
It is part of the issue, but not in it's entirety.

Remember what I mentioned above about money??
That's the drive. That's the real issue.
Traders sell their live commodities to zoos, conservation areas, and individuals.

So what element in this entire process of the illegal trade suffers the most??
The animal, no doubt.

It's the wilderness that suffers the most.

One basically takes away from the ecology and wilderness and depletes the earth of some of it's natural wonder.

I am of the opinion that if such practices of illegal animal trade continues to the point of some animal having become entirely extinct, then it'll just continue with another animal and another and another and another....till eventually there'll be very few animals in the wild left...if any at all.

Then what??
Won't we, as humans inhabiting this earth, be poor.

Here's the link:

Al Jazeera English - Americas - Peru's animal-trade problem

enjoy

[slikrapid]

Apparently, the animal trade exist's also in South America. In all honesty, I didn't realize it as much as I understand the Asian, African, Russian, and North American illegal animal trade.

i imagine, since some claim its the 3rd biggest black market trade in the world (after drugs and weapons), it would flourish wherever there is wildlife & endangered species

In places such as China, I am sure that your aware of the fact, that animal goods are used for traditional medicine-related reasons.

That's been going on for eons.

Since somethings go on for eons and eons, I don't think that it's particularly easy to stop, let alone slow down such practices.

well, i'm pretty sure those who have been educated in fields of traditional medicine are aware of the extinction danger and take the necessary steps in order not to deplete their resources up to the point of extinction, as that would mean they have lost their precious medicine ingredients, not to mention how it would probably go against their sense of respect & connection to the nature - so if these species are in a very bad shape imo the blame does not lie on the traditional medicine representatives (more likely on the industry or government or the black market)

And that is exactly what animals in such a trade have become: commodities.

Hard to swallow the pill, isn't it??

depends, is it the red or the blue one?

but since our system is monetary based, almost everything has its price/value and may be considered as some kind of a commodity

I have no idea why the term 'human trafficker' is used in that above statement.

i'd say they meant no human involved in animal trafficking (international one) has been serving time in peru - imo since this business is way too lucrative to be done by small time traffickers (even if they have their part in the same system) there are some major players involved, which means good connections to the law enforcement too - to keep things easier, non important shipments get caught (and the fact gets used in various PR ways) and the juicy ones remain conveniently undetected, maybe for a nice percentage to the local force leaders too - a hint to it was in the video when a 'sophisticated smuggling network' was mentioned

also, they mentioned how the animal hunters aren't really making much money out of it, which is logical just as, say, the diamond miners aren't making the large sums in the diamond business, they are simply way down the ladder, obviously the biggest profits will be made by the resellers or their network leaders or maybe during later internal trading if available

The collector for sure.
If they can afford the high price being offered for some exotic animal, I'm sure they can afford the high fine associated with being caught with it.

yet, the key element in stopping this practice would be the middle man or the network as without it their whole system would crumble, since neither the collector will make risky trips with such a cargo nor would the hunters go overseas to make the delivery - now, the matter of probability for this scenario, given the lucrativeness of it all, is another story

One basically takes away from the ecology and wilderness and depletes the earth of some of it's natural wonder.

I am of the opinion that if such practices of illegal animal trade continues to the point of some animal having become entirely extinct, then it'll just continue with another animal and another and another and another....till eventually there'll be very few animals in the wild left...if any at all.

Then what??
Won't we, as humans inhabiting this earth, be poor.

well, its surely a tough question, since, if humanity wants to survive it needs to feed itself, meaning a continued killing of animals and plants likewise and with the arrival of mass production/exploitation (aka industry) it all took a ruthless mechanical massive scale and in the process changed lives and attitudes of many related to parts of the affected areas (fishermen, farmers,...)

and there is a lot of hypocrisy involved as well, since many will complain about eating animals, yet they use leather shoes or happily dissect 'silently screaming' plants, or about wildlife trapped in zoo cages, yet having strikingly similar situation with their own pets, or western 'caring' protection agencies preaching how to live to the less industrially developed countries, yet their western (supposedly advanced in knowledge & technology) countries have destroyed their own wildlife ages ago and now have to import from other continents in order to be able to show what wildlife is...not to mention all sorts of intermediate sweet-talking profiteers hanging onto global cliches and harvesting crumby leftovers created by multinational companies toxic presence

then there are natural disasters that have no preference when it comes to choosing their victims and there have been many during the ages with a few notable ones as the supposed ice ages and/or according to some deluge(s), which as you may imagine have had a much more powerful influence on the animal/plant life in the past than humans ever did

so i would say there are many angles to take into consideration when dealing with this subject, one thing is for sure, reckless destruction of plants/animals should be avoided or minimized, since it may very well be true that our own existence (or that of the future generations) depends on it

[desodorante]

Argentina has a very serious problem in this area. Just to picture an idea of how severe this is, turtles are almost extinct in the North region of the country because just about anyone sells them on the side of the Routes. When I was a kid, every single family had one or two, and it already was illegal, but even veterinaries sold them.
In the litoral area (NE of the country), monkeys, snakes, parrots and birds of all sorts are smuggled by truckers, specially in the tri-border zone (Brasil/Paraguay/Argentina)
I even met a woman that had a Puma

[SealLion]

......so if these species are in a very bad shape imo the blame does not lie on the traditional medicine representatives (more likely on the industry or government or the black market)

this is interesting to note; however, I find that this both believable yet also unbelievable. I say this b/c the last time I was inside a Chinese herbal./medicine store, by-the-life of me, I couldn't believe the amount of antler horns and black bear gall bladders stuffed inside all the jars I saw.

I think that your statement does hold some validity with respect to some of the people who have enough common sense to understand that fact that they cant just hunt animals without some regard for the environment and the animals that inhabit that environment.

However, as with many cases, I am sure that there is some element of the population that could care less for how much they deplete the animal kingdom of it's resources.
It's profit that counts the most.

.....the biggest profits will be made by the resellers or their network leaders

definitely.
Much like the middle-man you make mention of later on.
they are the true profiteers.

they buy cheap, yet sell for a high value to the animal collector or to the zoo or to the conservation area which I provided for as an example above.

.....and there is a lot of hypocrisy involved as well, since many will complain about eating animals, yet they use leather shoes or happily dissect 'silently screaming' plants, or about wildlife trapped in zoo cages, yet having strikingly similar situation with their own pets,....

very true. I could not have said this better myself.

....I even met a woman that had a Puma

I 'd be interested in knowing how she captured that animal.
Maybe she, or her family, drugged the animal and then had it on for display to be sold, as puma's are the equivalent of North America's cougar and are wild and untamed.
So I don't think that any puma could have been coaxed with cookies and cream to be nice and tame.

According to the video, some of these wild animals are drugged to not only subdue them but to ensure their being quiet during transport.

so maybe, this is how she may have done this. Would you know by any chance, desodorante??

[Nobody]

There's not a lot to disagree with here. But glad to see you back in the saddle SealLion!

I will comment that I don't think the appetite for rare animal parts in China and the rest of Asia will be satiated anytime soon. If anything, with it's rapid growth the demand is just going to go up even more. In my opinion it's not really due to any ignorance or wish to harm the planet--it's just deeply ingrained tradition. If you had a cold, and I told you Chickens were endangered, would you still have the instinct to eat chicken noodle soup? Yes you would.

The fact that it's pre-packaged and processed, so far removed from the animal it came from and sitting neatly upon the shelf, only makes the emotional disconnect from the world consequences even easier. Afterall, if this creature was really on the brink of extinction, why would my local pharmacist continue having it in stock?

The demand for these products has to be curbed. Traditional medicine is not going to change for the same reason religious practices aren't going to change their doctrines passed down from generation to generation. It's sacrosanct. Maybe if we could use cloning technology to clone the organs desired without cloning anything resembling a full animal--it could curb the market. But I have my doubts that this would be a cheaper alternative.

[desodorante]

I 'd be interested in knowing how she captured that animal.
Maybe she, or her family, drugged the animal and then had it on for display to be sold, as puma's are the equivalent of North America's cougar and are wild and untamed.
So I don't think that any puma could have been coaxed with cookies and cream to be nice and tame.

When I saw the Puma chained in this lady's house (as well as lots of birds, parrots, dogs and cats) it seemed to be young, so my guess is she got it when it was a baby. She said his son found it wondering on the streets (which I have always believe it is BS, even back then, when I was about 9)
That was about 15 years ago, so I guess she and the Puma may no longer be alive.

[slikrapid]

I think that your statement does hold some validity with respect to some of the people who have enough common sense to understand that fact that they cant just hunt animals without some regard for the environment and the animals that inhabit that environment.

However, as with many cases, I am sure that there is some element of the population that could care less for how much they deplete the animal kingdom of it's resources.
It's profit that counts the most.

you're right, naturally 'every crop has chaff' so to speak, especially when the monetary (among others) gain takes precedence over the medical (or core philosophical) essence/purpose of the activity/occupation so some form of corruption/deviation is inevitable

I 'd be interested in knowing how she captured that animal.
Maybe she, or her family, drugged the animal and then had it on for display to be sold, as puma's are the equivalent of North America's cougar and are wild and untamed.

it is possible that this woman has/had connections with the smugglers but it may even be an act of compassion if the animal was 'saved' from a possibly worse destiny (like certain death for various reasons), so its hard to say what the real motives were in this case

btw, just for the sake of clarity, drugging of the animals is a widely used (legal) method when performing medical procedures or during transportation (especially with non-domestic ones)

I will comment that I don't think the appetite for rare animal parts in China and the rest of Asia will be satiated anytime soon. If anything, with it's rapid growth the demand is just going to go up even more.

now that you mentioned it, i would add that such development is actually logical, since the so called 'modern' medicine (or many other areas using artificial chemical ingredients) hasn't been able to adequately substitute (and maybe even never will) the traditional medicine knowledge - it may not even be a too far fetched thing to say that most of its really effective products have been designed using none other than the traditional knowledge - but, afaik a significant problem with the modern medicine is the artificial chemical mixture they tend to use and that may be one of the reasons why just about any industrial medical product has a disturbingly long list of side effects and possible new problems for the consumers in the future - this inadequacy and lack of assurance or trust may be one of the reasons why we may expect an increased number of consumers looking for other sources, ones whose long legacy and natural origin may have a much stronger appeal - of course, their authenticity and actual reliability or effectiveness is another subject - concerning the trends we may expect many impostors just sticking a label that says 'traditional' onto their products, trying to profit on gullible or desperate customers

Afterall, if this creature was really on the brink of extinction, why would my local pharmacist continue having it in stock?

well, lets just say that the corporate owners and/or suppliers of the pharmacy may have lower standards when it comes to ecological awareness vs. profit

Maybe if we could use cloning technology to clone the organs desired without cloning anything resembling a full animal--it could curb the market. But I have my doubts that this would be a cheaper alternative.

not to mention if this method is even healthy at all

an example of what may be expected from the industry is the fast propagation of gm food & seeds, an area that offers many profitable advantages to the manufacturers/sellers or related industry branches, even though many examples show it is still a not sufficiently researched/understood technology with potential life/health threatening consequences, furthermore we witness not only its spreading but also attempts to forcefully expel natural/traditional competition, even if it doesn't really represent a competent danger to the industry when considering its ability to serve large portions of the market