SOY? Good for Men or not?

[hellman]

Well gonna start Bulking again so i was thinking to buy Soy protein too

But i've read somewhere that soy is not good for men.. It has some estrogens n can weaken sexual hink power of men and blah blah

Is it true? or just a MYTH
Should i buy it or not. I think its just a myth as i have researched about it but still i'm posting here n i wanna make sure..
Otherwise just Whey protein for me..

[slikrapid]

i've read somewhere that soy is not good for men.. It has some estrogens n can weaken sexual hink power of men

looks like its not good for men/women/children in general (as food, fermentation partially excluded) for a number of reasons, the whole soy-market seems to be another corporate scam to erect a potentially lucrative market, the so-called 'virgin markets', regardless of the inherent medical/nutritional issues (incl. cancer, mentioned in the article below):

Advances in technology make it possible to produce isolated soy protein from what was once considered a waste product - the defatted, high-protein soy chips - and then transform something that looks and smells terrible into products that can be consumed by human beings. Flavourings, preservatives, sweeteners, emulsifiers and synthetic nutrients have turned soy protein isolate, the food processors' ugly duckling, into a New Age Cinderella.

The new fairy-tale food has been marketed not so much for her beauty but for her virtues. Early on, products based on soy protein isolate were sold as extenders and meat substitutes - a strategy that failed to produce the requisite consumer demand. The industry changed its approach. "The quickest way to gain product acceptability in the less affluent society," said an industry spokesman, "is to have the product consumed on its own merit in a more affluent society."3 So soy is now sold to the upscale consumer, not as a cheap, poverty food but as a miracle substance that will prevent heart disease and cancer, whisk away hot flushes, build strong bones and keep us forever young. The competition - meat, milk, cheese, butter and eggs - has been duly demonised by the appropriate government bodies. Soy serves as meat and milk for a new generation of virtuous vegetarians.

The propaganda that has created the soy sales miracle is all the more remarkable because, only a few decades ago, the soybean was considered unfit to eat - even in Asia.

Soy protein was introduced into infant formula in the early 1960s. It was a new product with no history of any use at all. As soy protein did not have GRAS status, premarket approval was required. This was not and still has not been granted. The key ingredient of soy infant formula is not recognised as safe.

http://whale.to/a/fallon1.html

also, as someone mentioned before: get your proteins & co. from real food, not industrial concoctions/preparations (since their side-effects baggage is considerable)

Otherwise just Whey protein for me..

guess you already have an answer to the original question, whey=okay

[hellman]

i'll drop this... Whey for me then and I'll start eating homemade chicken again gotta have my protein somehow

[alpacino]

If you are going for whey, don't forget to drink more water then usual, to keep the kidneys working good. I remember I had to stop using whey because of this, had lot of pain in the back for not drinking water well.

[cirulilu]

this is what you need if you want to beef up

[hellman]

If you are going for whey, don't forget to drink more water then usual, to keep the kidneys working good. I remember I had to stop using whey because of this, had lot of pain in the back for not drinking water well.

yeah m well aware of that .. thankyou.. I drink more than enough .. only problem is i had to go to toilet many times
water is also important coz it keeps muscles hydrated. without that u can't build new muscle.. I have a simple thing to check whether i'm drinking sufficient water or not.. If ur urine is even slighty yellow means drink more water.. dark yellow means dude u're in deep shit... transparent water like means more than enough.. u're good to go.. i drinks after regular intervals of time.. i drink little by little after time to time many times

[theintervurt]

If ur urine is even slighty yellow means drink more water.. dark yellow means dude u're in deep shit... transparent water like means more than enough.. u're good to go..

Actually normal urine color ranges from slightly yellow to dark yellow it doesn't in any way mean you're in deep shit.

[hellman]

Actually normal urine color ranges from slightly yellow to dark yellow it doesn't in any way mean you're in deep shit.

By deep shit i meant a warning signal that body needs more water or u won't grow faster

[tr-cht-fx-242p]

from personal experience of years, soy is no good. doesn't digest or absorb well at all. I stick with whey or egg protein. hmmm urine... well I drink ~4 liters pure water each day and additionally more when exercising. I work very hard to maintain the body and have very good stats on myself to believe soy is not the way to go. I don't ever want dark urine yukkk! Good real food supplemented with whey and egg protein I keep low body fat through lifting and some running, biking, etc.

[Sazzy]

But i've read somewhere that soy is not good for men.. It has some estrogens n can weaken sexual hink power of men and blah blah

Does.. that mean it's good for women?

well I drink ~4 liters pure water each day and additionally more when exercising.

Depending on how sweaty you are, I think you're severally over-drinking water... o.O'

[tr-cht-fx-242p]

Depending on how sweaty you are, I think you're severally over-drinking water... o.O'

I have drank lots of water for many years. What do you mean over-drinking water?

Ok, I measure exact the cup I fill 4 times daily. So 2.8 liters plus maybe another 0.7 for exercise...

[hellman]

Does.. that mean it's good for women?

well not really.. i researched alot .. consumed in low quantities n if u take it occassionally.. no harm done
on daily basis u can't take it. studies suggests that soy is least destructive in its fermentation state..
however it is good for those who have bad cholesterol,blood pressure issues n heart issues
but those who have hormonal disorder this thing is poison(not literally) for them..

I've decided to stick with chicken,eggs n whey

and 4 liters is not excessive..he lift n plus cardio .. N since he's fitness freak by judging his comments he consumes alot of protein.. So 4litres is normal.. I myself consume 3 liters a day..

[Sazzy]

I have drank lots of water for many years. What do you mean over-drinking water?

Ok, I measure exact the cup I fill 4 times daily. So 2.8 liters plus maybe another 0.7 for exercise...

I mean that drinking too much isn't healthy either At large amounts, water can even become poisonous.. (You're not really there though )
The average amount to drink a day is like 2 liters, so I was surprised to see you drinking double. But like I said before, it depends on person to person. For some, two liters is already too much. I guess you really work it off at the gym

[Renk]

Well gonna start Bulking again so i was thinking to buy Soy protein too

But i've read somewhere that soy is not good for men.. It has some estrogens n can weaken sexual hink power of men and blah blah

Is it true? or just a MYTH
Should i buy it or not. I think its just a myth as i have researched about it but still i'm posting here n i wanna make sure..
Otherwise just Whey protein for me..

I think it's a myth.

* Men need estrogens
* Men produce estrogen (from testosterone, through a process named aromatase, and in some way, the more you have testosterone, the more you produce estrogens)
* Men generally produce more estrogen when aging (not because they produce more testosterone, but because aromatase become more active, leading to and estrogens/testosterone imbalance in aging men).
* Both low and high level of estrogen are associated in men with increased risks of death
* Milk does contain estrogens (and the most potent form, 17-beta estradiol), and growth factors
* But soy didn't contain estrogens, or "phyto-estrogens"

Soy contains isoflafones (genistin, daidzin and glycitin and their active aglycone forms), witch are not estrogens but substances that can bind to and activate estrogens receptors. There are 2 estrogens receptors, ER-alpha and ER-beta. Soy's isoflafones have a stronger affinity to ER-beta receptors. Activation of ER-beta receptors is rather tumor-suppressive ("rather" because there are some breast cancer cells that express ER-beta). Soy's isoflavones have a protective effect against prostate cancer too, and against some others.

Soy isoflavones have moreover ability to interfere with the "general" inflammatory cytokine IL6. This cytokine raises with age, and is associated to many chronic conditions in aging.

But soy -as eg calcium- can interfere with absorption of some hormonal medication indicated in hypothyroidism.

Soy contains less methionine than whey. Methionine is necessary, but a little too much methionine can fuel cancers.

Asian people consume soy since 10000 years.
Japanese people typically consume daily up to 1mg of soy isoflavones /kg weight. Moreover 100g of soy protein isolate contains approximately 100mg of aglycone soy isoflavones (100 g of soy protein concentrate "alcoholic extracted" contains only 12 mg).

So it could be considered as safe, and even healthly, to consume 50g of soy protein isolate per day, or to mix whey+soy protein isolate, or to "rotate" them.

Be aware that many amino acid (especially sulfur containing AA) have a metabolic acidifying effect. So it's important to consume vegetables too, or to take eg potassium citrate.


Some references:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16197614
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19127598
Soy food and isoflavone intake and colorectal cancer risk: the Fukuoka Colorectal Cancer Study. | VHL Search Portal
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24871471
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24373791


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14585259
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11603655
http://www.nutritionaloncologyresear...n_Protocol.pdf

[slikrapid]

... * Both low and high level of estrogen are associated in men with increased risks of death
...Activation of ER-beta receptors is rather tumor-suppressive ("rather" because there are some breast cancer cells that express ER-beta
...but a little too much methionine can fuel cancers.

without context/numbers these don't mean anything, some are also contradictory

having access to medical literature alone is not enough since the findings are often contradictory (should be checked for bias or inadequate methodology or financial dependence, especially newer research,...) and you don't have an overview of what is going on with the food in question (like the virgin market push and regulatory manipulation mentioned above), ie. your interpretation of the findings become erroneous - it is thus not surprising that even those in the medical community often have opposing or contradictory attitudes regarding common topics - obviously, the easy way out is to simply adopt views spread by the most powerful/influential authorities on the subject, ones that are surely accompanied by sizable financial interest/support from the industry & co. (happens in all fields of human activity, not just medicine), so can you really trust these 'authorities'? based on their behavior in the past and a general lack of accountability, definitely not

note: all replies in italic below are c/p from the link in my previous post

But soy didn't contain estrogens, or "phyto-estrogens

...soy isoflavones like genistein and diadzen, the oestrogen-like compounds found in soybeans.

Asian people consume soy since 10000 years.

Even China, where soy really is a poverty food

So it could be considered as safe, and even healthly, to consume 50g of soy protein isolate per day

again, missing context: to consume 'for how long', like this:

In 1991, Japanese researchers reported that consumption of as little as 30 grams or two tablespoons of soybeans per day for only one month resulted in a significant increase in thyroid-stimulating hormone.