Al Jazeera English: Proxy detention 'collusion' exposed

[SealLion]

This stuff just blows the mind.

But....it isn't new after-all. Considering how things are, it's not much of a surprise that when you consider the amount of corporate and governmental corruption that exists.

That includes international governmental co-operative corruption.

this is what I like about AJE and other sites like Wikileaks.org

check it out.

Governments around the world, including those of Arab and European states, have colluded in the secret detention of terrorism suspects, UN investigators have reported.

An extensive report, released on Wednesday, paints a disturbing picture of a systematic secret detention programme involving many countries.

that sort of practice isn't new. I"m sure you know that too..

Officials found that secret detention "may even amount to a crime against humanity"

IF that isn't an understatement, then I don't know what is.'

Complicity

Criticisms of US detention policy since 2001 are nothing new, but the report will make for uncomfortable reading for leaders in countries accused of colluding with Washington in the CIA's now defunct rendition and detention programme.

the report states a defunct rendition and detentin programme.......I don't know...I have my doubts.
But that's my opinion.

I have my doubts not just because of the embarrasement and news availability on this issue for countries participating in such things, but also because things do happen in secret behind doors that remain closed.
As part of some procedure to claim that such practice has stopped, authorities claim that such practice has stopped but in reality, nothing really has changed.
It remains a secret...until discovered again...hopefully discovered again, that is.
And then stopped definitly

In my own country, there is a big gaw-faw about Afghan detainees being handed over to the Afghan authorities for interrogation and potential abuse.

Will stuff like that stop??
I doubt it.
If you want' information from your enemy, your going to make what-ever means are available to you to get what information you want.
Your not going to be nice and say 'pretty-please with sugar on it'

The UK, Canada, Australia and Germany are all accused of "taking advantage of the situation of secret detention," by sending questions and receiving information from prisoners held in proxy detention

There's other countries involved too, you know....there's Egypt, Jordan, and most likely other Arab states such as Saudi Arabia.

The report also notes that the US "asked partners with poor human rights records to secretly detain and interrogate persons on its behalf," accusing Jordon, Egypt, Syria, Morocco, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and possibly Uzbekistan of holding prisoners on behalf of the CIA.

Poor human rights records, eh??

well, of course. The US and it's Western Allies want to look innocent. IT's not just some constitutional barrier that prevents such behaviour and action. Theres's also the image factor.
What western government want's to dirty itself with dirty laundry when you can get someone else to do your dirty work for you??

Accusations of complicity in the US rendition programme have prompted a furious reaction from some of the governments singled out by the report.

The UK, which is accused of complicity ...... rejected the report as "unsubstantiated and irresponsible"

Well of course their going to deny responsibitlity. They want to look innocent and 'clean'. They still have blood on thier hands in my opinion.

......the report concludes that secret detention is a reality that needs to be addressed.

"The evidence gathered ...... clearly show that many states, referring to concerns relating to national security - often perceived or presented as unprecedented emergencies or threats - resort to secret detention," it says..

Here's the link:

Al Jazeera English - HUMAN RIGHTS FOCUS - Proxy detention 'collusion' exposed

enjoy.

[saebrtooth]

As long as you have te financial clout people arnt gona mess with you. It alright that their are double standards as long as we are on top, right?

I dont like bashing indiscriminantly, just the ones culpable. Thats why I like to distinguish between the US Gov and it people at large. In any house hold there is good and bad, save to say any country there is good and bad. However just like in a family unit as would a country I believe although certain family members dont hold the cards to decision making but they sure can influence the policy makers.

Allowing ones family member to carryout injustices by way of neglect or blind eye is the same as a citizen allowing ones Goverment to carry out injusties. A family is like a small organisation, a country is like a large organisation, if the members of the organisation are loyal to the family or government no matter how much outside pressure is put on them to change it cannot be compared with a miniscule effort if ll member rise up as a whole. No ammount of pestering from an outiside influence will make a country change.

Just like priest ignoring child rape they in effect condone it.

[SealLion]

Absolutely there's always good and bad people in any country (household). I realize that there's a difference between good Yankies and bad Yankies.
It's the same here.
But I will say this much about the US government including the people that vote for a particular person to hold office.
Take the enigmatic GWB.
Everybody in the whole-wide-world loved to hate that guy.

The damage that he did to his country's reputation and the foreign policies that his government enforced re: regional and global military expansion, hyper-promotion of corporate elitism, reckless foreign policies, invasions galore, detainees in Cuba, sending detainees abroad for interrogation and torture while turning blind eye to such things, and what-not, can you blame the populace for having voted him in??

In my view...yes
However, the people who may have voted for policy makers that are in office, not expecting those same policy makers to have made some unscrupulous and corruptible decisions, can't be blamed 100 percent b/c they neither expected nor foresaw those bad decisions to be made.
Voters are responsible for the leaders they elect.
I mean, who you gonna blame for having put someone in office......space aliens???

Except for those persons that supported him ( Bush and Obama in this case)and continue to support those same policies that persons like Prez Obama has not discarded, like the expansion of military forces into South America, AFRICOM ( or CENTCOM as I think it's called now...go to Wikipedia to find out more) and a list of other things too numerous to list here probably.

However, it's not directly persons such as Obama that have control over such things ( to a point somewhat), it's influential groups such as the Bilderberg Group.
If your not familiar with this organization, the Encyclopedia Brittanica on my HDD states the following re: this organization and the conference they hold annually.

(An) annual three-day conference attended by about 100 of Europe's and North America's most influential bankers, economists, politicians, and government officials. The conference, held in a different Western country each year, is conducted in an atmosphere of rigid secrecy. The conference provides a private, informal environment in which those who influence national policies and international affairs can get to know each other and discuss without commitment their common problems. After each conference a private report of the meeting is circulated only to past and present participants, and in the report speakers are identified only by their country. The conferences were initiated by Prince Bernhard of The Netherlands and took their name from the hotel at Oosterbeek, Neth., where the first conference was held in 1954. An international steering committee generally selects different delegates each year.

Source:

"Bilderberg Conference." Encyclopædia Britannica. Encyclopaedia Britannica Ultimate Reference Suite. Chicago: Encyclopædia Britannica, 2010.

That is direct from the Encyclopedia Brittancia. I would think that, that encyclopedia is of a reputable source, yes??

Now, did you read that about holding influential policies steering's on both the national and international scenes??
Read that again if you missed it.

Of course, these events by country's such as the US, UK, Canada, Australia, even the UN that steer events and course mark them in specific directions aren't without not knowing what's on the road ahead.
They are deliberate.
The events that you see and hear about aren't occurring on an ad hoc basis, IMHO. They are deliberate course markings.

So getting back to your original point re: bad and good family members (i.e. government vs. citizens who vote for a government) . Yes there are good governmental people in office and then theres the bad one's.
If no amount of pestering from outside sources can change a government's course, then it's up to those people living in that country to change things.

One of the most important things I believe is awareness and knowledge as compared to strong efforts to change things.
Voice your opinions and opt for a decent change of things, then.

Corruption abounds everywhere in all corners of the world.
My country, as I found out with this recent event in Haiti, is equally as guilty of corruption as any other.
I'm not happy with what happened either.
However, I am to blame for having voted my government in office; however, it was unforeseen.
Next time, I may swing my vote in another direction.

With respect to strong outside influences, there is not much that one can do, except to be aware and organize your knowledge so that you may bring knowledge to others who may not be aware of such international and national influences steering a country in one direction or another.

Education is power, yes??

overall, I really dont know what else to say here about this.

[saebrtooth]

I agree with you SL, sory I didnt mean from what I said for you in a personal perspective to be a person whom bashes the US lol. I know you are well meaning and thats why I have paid subscription to your service :)

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 ----------

But I will say this much about the US government including the people that vote for a particular person to hold office.
Take the enigmatic GWB.
Everybody in the whole-wide-world loved to hate that guy.

The damage that he did to his country's reputation and the foreign policies that his government enforced re: regional and global military expansion, hyper-promotion of corporate elitism, reckless foreign policies, invasions galore, detainees in Cuba, sending detainees abroad for interrogation and torture while turning blind eye to such things, and what-not, can you blame the populace for having voted him in??

For this point I feel that the public may not be too harshly criticised for electing him for what person has the great wisdom of foresight? However hindsight is 20/20 and as you say "The damage that he did to his country's reputation and the foreign policies that his government enforced..." and the public knowing this but still ignores this and instead re-elects him then it can be said that those whom give support or turn a blind eye they too can be held accountable to some extent.

In my view...yes
However, the people who may have voted for policy makers that are in office, not expecting those same policy makers to have made some unscrupulous and corruptible decisions, can't be blamed 100 percent b/c they neither expected nor foresaw those bad decisions to be made.
Voters are responsible for the leaders they elect.
I mean, who you gonna blame for having put someone in office......space aliens???

And I agree, and as was said above if you know that the guy has a history of behaving in this way then... we can only blame ourselves, as the public for re-electing him.

Noam Chomsky himself did not dismiss Obama as the choice for president during the election campaigne, however Chomsky did say whenever there were two major party choice he would select the 3rd and saying that John McCain was a dangerouse man but did not say that of Obama. Later near a year into Obama's presidency Chomsky also criticised Obama for upholding the same foreign policies as Bush and in some cases going even further than Bush.

Forsight is difficult to obtain.

If your not familiar with this organization, the Encyclopedia Brittanica on my HDD states the following re: this organization and the conference they hold annually.

Yes I read about them before

One of the most important things I believe is awareness and knowledge as compared to strong efforts to change things.
Voice your opinions and opt for a decent change of things, then.

Yes I agree that force is not the way to go but rather thoug hthe right channels. And on a strategic point of view their is not much choice but this.

Corruption abounds everywhere in all corners of the world.
My country, as I found out with this recent event in Haiti, is equally as guilty of corruption as any other.
I'm not happy with what happened either.
However, I am to blame for having voted my government in office; however, it was unforeseen.
Next time, I may swing my vote in another direction.

it is disheartening to buy something and then find it was not as you had expected. but in this case its a no-return, no-refund policy :)

With respect to strong outside influences, there is not much that one can do, except to be aware and organize your knowledge so that you may bring knowledge to others who may not be aware of such international and national influences steering a country in one direction or another.

Yes I agree. Unfortunatley in this world the crude but common say: Money talks and Bullshit walks, applies at almost every strata in society and sometimes relationships. It is not that its unfortunate that those with financial clout have a greater say but due to human nature it is often self serving.

Education is power, yes??

overall, I really dont know what else to say here about this.

Good job SL

[SealLion]

oh, yes. OF course I was aware of that re: bashing in general rather than being specific. .
I was aware of that quite well.

your responses are well made too.

[slikrapid]

a disturbing picture of a systematic secret detention programme involving many countries.

well, many (if not all) countries have such secret detention facilities, used mostly by their intelligence agencies under special arrangements that aren't explicitly listed in country laws, but are being hidden in various classified documents, giving them extra power over other persons (a license to detain for example) - they do keep internal documents about the events, but rest assured little will be accessible to the general public, even if it did, expect heavily censored reports (remember those documents with black marker lines all over them)

and logically, various governments cooperate on such subjects, sometimes creating larger organizations like the nato, so expect special facilities in every country that has a nato membership, with the usa having more privileges than other members - and then there are more secretive connections to various internal & external militant or subversive organizations (cia specialty), all of which may also be used to coordinate detainment of (mutually) unwanted/dangerous persons

For this point I feel that the public may not be too harshly criticised for electing him for what person has the great wisdom of foresight?

its not that hard to recognize, if one wants to research it a bit more (beyond the mainstream media information) - all it takes is to check out the previous presidents, their parties and events during their presidential time in office - what will emerge is a reoccurring pattern of foreign military involvement, pro-corporate support in their demands, continuous financial breakdown as arranged by the international bankers and much more of the like (historically repetitive actions), many promises to the general public & even more breaking of those promises, after all, how many governments does one need to experience in order to realize its all a long ongoing manipulative scheme, currently under the name democracy

With respect to strong outside influences, there is not much that one can do, except to be aware and organize your knowledge so that you may bring knowledge to others who may not be aware of such international and national influences steering a country in one direction or another.

Education is power, yes??

i would rephrase that to knowledge is power (education being an already pre-censored system in itself)

and when you know about certain things being manipulated or profited from, it gives you the advantage to avoid possible traps that come along with them (in forms of lost time & energy, beliefs, investments,...) as there are many people who spend their lifetime pursuing some idea which was fabricated from the start to mislead them, basically wasting their life on some nonsense

therefore, with knowledge one no longer plays the passive role of the victim (ever-wondering how some things just always seem to go wrong), but can take an active role whether it may be to avoid the negative effects, inform others or fight against it, whatever the choice may be (some go into it knowingly, just to profit from it)

an example: by knowing about the adverse effects (and the agenda behind it) of the genetically modified GM food, you can now have an informed decision on whether you will be more careful when buying food (or industrial products in general), grow your own, avoid big food distribution chains, open your own store or farm or whatever else you choose to do - on the other hand, the unsuspecting consumer may have an easier (in terms of no need to bother with these controversies, but inherently more dangerous) life (as in ignorance is bliss) - personally, i would rather have the truth and deal with it, as opposed to being fed some fairy-tales/lies/deceptions etc.