I'm _not_ getting fired. ++++++++++++ ..But holy shit!

So I'm currently looking at a job that would (or at least should) net me about 1000 euro more for the same job as I'm doing now (yes I'm underpaid for what I do).
Having talked things through with the employer I have in mind, we finally agreed on the ranking that I'd get when joining (e.g. senior -- thus the pay mentioned before).
This already took a few months, which is just way too long, but now that things are finally decided, they suddenly expect me to quit my job at my current employer before they even show me the contract I'd be getting at the new job. Well, not actually quit, but inform them I'm wanting to take a job there, which is the same as telling my current boss "hey, I will be quitting this job in this and a few days if their contract is satisfactory".
I'm currently freelancing there and looking to start as an actual employee so there's some legal issues since my current employer has a contract with them and they can't ask me to start working for them in the first place. (Though I am allowed to ask them)

They told me this procedure is perfectly normal. I don't understand how anyone would ever accept this. (and plenty of people go from freelancing to working as a normal employee)

By doing what they ask me, I'd:

• quit my job
• be without a job with a house to pay off
• get stuck in a situation where i need a new job fast because bills keep coming and no savings (just bought the house, obviously all my money is gone!)
• get to finally read a contract that can, at this point, exist of anything (they called it "conform to market")
• stuff that has been promised so far can easily be taken back since it's not in writing. Promises are not often kept in the business world when it concerns money.
• worst case end up with a contract worse than the one I have now thus end up losing money, the nice car and other benefits.
• little choice or leverage not to sign since I'm already without a job and likely don't have the possibility to crawl back to my current employer (already fucked there as well since I'd have to tell them I don't want to work for them anymore)
• there will always be the possibility to move on to a next job if it would suck, but why take the risk?! I could just as well start looking to move on to that new and yet to be discovered job today.

I love my job there. I love going to work. Which is the whole reason I'm considering them in the first place if they're willing to give me a contract worthy of what I'm giving in return. But I can't help but feel like they're trying to trick me into a situation that's highly beneficial to them and sucks on my end :wermm:
I haven't been this upset since.... well... ever. I've been shaking and twitching all day.

Obviously I told them it was unacceptable and they were going to look into it. But this has already got me doubting if I even want to go through with this. Even if I get what I asked for (I won't accept any less, I'm not asking much, just the same as others), what will happen next time?

What do? I'm thinking to just keep my foot down right now since I don't believe it will end up well if I don't. I might miss an opportunity by doing so, but I'm more likely dodging a bullet instead.
e.g. 300 + raise would still be a win, but in the end it will be a major bullet since others are making 1000 + for this job, it turns out. It's not really that I got screwed over from the start at my current job. Hard work and an absolute love for the job has just gotten me to a point where I've reached seniority early and my pay just won't grow as fast as I am. While sad, I realize this is perfectly normal

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Originally Posted by Sazzy

... I told them it was unacceptable and they were going to look into it.

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Then I'd wait for a response. It may not be a "this or that" choice yet. This sort of situations can often be fixed just by talking to them and explaining what the problem is. Naturally, you can't tell them this is a dealbreaker because you'd end up living under a bridge if they suddenly decide they don't want to hire you, but you can say the current proposal does not provide as much financial stability as you'd prefer by depriving you of income for an indeterminate time period, yet would be acceptable if that minor detail were to be rectified. Even though somewhat optimistic, don't disregard the possibility of this being some test of character, either.

The way this is laid out right now, it is tempting to take the deal because you've put some months' effort on getting it, and a 1000€ boost is pretty awesome; and it is tempting not to, because stability. Avoid the sunk cost fallacy, but also be aware risks pay off at times. And as I said above, that there's the possibility of getting a favorable response and being able to take the offer without any further thinking.

What you could do in the meantime is some intelligence gathering: if you know some permanent employees in the "new" company well enough, you can ask them whether they also went through this and what the experience was. See what people have to say online. Maybe even check employment laws, just in case there's something you can take cover with.

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Even if I get what I asked for (I won't accept any less, I'm not asking much, just the same as others), what will happen next time?

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You'll stand your ground and end up victorious again, of course!

Also, if you're shaking and twitching, turn the heater on or you'll catch a cold :smilie4:

Well, the 1000 euro is a guess. I know what some of the other people are making and I'm getting the same level, so obviously I want the same money rewards. The major dealbreaker here (sorry if it wasn't too clear before) is not that I'd be out of a job for a while (since they'd supposedly hire me right away) but that I don't know what I'm signing into before i quit my current job, which is just ridiculous. Normally you talk to a new company, sign a contract, then tell your current company you quit and that's that. If I was 100% sure I was getting the 1000 euro and all the other things, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But the way this is set up, just feels like they're trying to make me quit my job and then strongarm me into taking up an offer way below the set norm and so called promises (which have all been vague to start with). Even being 99% about something as ridiculous as this situation is a no-go for me. It's like buying a new car but you can't know which one before you go and pick it up, long after you've made the payments for it.

They're almost acting as if getting to work there should be reward enough on its own, but I'm sorry, that's not even true about a company like google. At the end of the day, we all have food to buy and bills to pay.

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Originally Posted by anon

Also, if you're shaking and twitching, turn the heater on or you'll catch a cold :smilie4:

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it's nerves and upset feelings bro:smilie4:

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Originally Posted by Sazzy

The major dealbreaker here (sorry if it wasn't too clear before) is not that I'd be out of a job for a while (since they'd supposedly hire me right away)

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Yes, that's how I understood it. My suggestions still stand, though :gsmile:

I agree that you can't accept an offer that is, for the time being, hazy and not on paper. That's not the proper way to do things for either side, and they'd be hard-pressed to deny this, although they'll try to downplay it if their ultimate goal is lulling you and then giving you a bad deal.

Ultimately, see how they react and follow your gut feeling.

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it's nerves and upset feelings bro:smilie4:

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That was my way of saying you may be overracting a bit :kiss:

Sb-i drama here I come! :)

We need more koel drama.

Update: on monday I'll know more. Worst case I just walk away and continue as if nothing happens.

On Monday I will also know whether I'll be working on a new place or staying where I was, just like you... but my desired outcome is the latter!

It will be a decisive day for both of us :top:

I wish you the best of luck as well :) Fingers crossed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sazzy

So I'm currently looking at a job that would (or at least should) net me about 1000 euro more for the same job as I'm doing now (yes I'm underpaid for what I do).
Having talked things through with the employer I have in mind, we finally agreed on the ranking that I'd get when joining (e.g. senior -- thus the pay mentioned before).
This already took a few months, which is just way too long, but now that things are finally decided, they suddenly expect me to quit my job at my current employer before they even show me the contract I'd be getting at the new job. Well, not actually quit, but inform them I'm wanting to take a job there, which is the same as telling my current boss "hey, I will be quitting this job in this and a few days if their contract is satisfactory".
I'm currently freelancing there and looking to start as an actual employee so there's some legal issues since my current employer has a contract with them and they can't ask me to start working for them in the first place. (Though I am allowed to ask them)

They told me this procedure is perfectly normal. I don't understand how anyone would ever accept this. (and plenty of people go from freelancing to working as a normal employee)

By doing what they ask me, I'd:

• quit my job
• be without a job with a house to pay off
• get stuck in a situation where i need a new job fast because bills keep coming and no savings (just bought the house, obviously all my money is gone!)
• get to finally read a contract that can, at this point, exist of anything (they called it "conform to market")
• stuff that has been promised so far can easily be taken back since it's not in writing. Promises are not often kept in the business world when it concerns money.
• worst case end up with a contract worse than the one I have now thus end up losing money, the nice car and other benefits.
• little choice or leverage not to sign since I'm already without a job and likely don't have the possibility to crawl back to my current employer (already fucked there as well since I'd have to tell them I don't want to work for them anymore)
• there will always be the possibility to move on to a next job if it would suck, but why take the risk?! I could just as well start looking to move on to that new and yet to be discovered job today.

I love my job there. I love going to work. Which is the whole reason I'm considering them in the first place if they're willing to give me a contract worthy of what I'm giving in return. But I can't help but feel like they're trying to trick me into a situation that's highly beneficial to them and sucks on my end :wermm:
I haven't been this upset since.... well... ever. I've been shaking and twitching all day.

Obviously I told them it was unacceptable and they were going to look into it. But this has already got me doubting if I even want to go through with this. Even if I get what I asked for (I won't accept any less, I'm not asking much, just the same as others), what will happen next time?

What do? I'm thinking to just keep my foot down right now since I don't believe it will end up well if I don't. I might miss an opportunity by doing so, but I'm more likely dodging a bullet instead.
e.g. 300 + raise would still be a win, but in the end it will be a major bullet since others are making 1000 + for this job, it turns out. It's not really that I got screwed over from the start at my current job. Hard work and an absolute love for the job has just gotten me to a point where I've reached seniority early and my pay just won't grow as fast as I am. While sad, I realize this is perfectly normal

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Fcuk that sucks. Well babe we're all in the same boat. Hang in there. U just stand your ground . If they love your work they'll give u a hike.

well i'll tell u something. They are definitely trying to benefit from u. I know coz i'm in the same situation .. even worse.. Although m assigned as coordinator , but in the papers m a freelancer and m given the work of a executive field in charge plus coordinator.. They won't give me raise and a promotion. My manager is a fcking a$$hole of epic proportions.
Recently just a week back i talked with him and asked about promoting rank and his response was fcking stupid "What do u care about rank, just keep on taking the money we give u" .. That exact line and he calls himself a manager .. Un fcking believable.. I wanna know where the fcking Hr guy who fcking gave him that seat. A$$hole asked me to write my concerns to him and he'll pass that to upper management to check what they have in store for me. He's not going to forward my mail i know and in the end , he come up with a story to make me work there a little more time.

M afraid if i resign he'll write freelancer in my exp certificate as in papers i am a freelancer. But i'll give him a tough fight if it came to that.

I feel like the only way to improve any work related situation is by leaving it and finding a new one.

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Originally Posted by Sazzy

I feel like the only way to improve any work related situation is by leaving it and finding a new one.

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depends on the situation, but that may be an illusion - you get a position that pays better but you lose some other things instead (work related or entirely unrelated), according to one's life balance or equilibrium, similarly to the way other things are balanced all around us and cannot escape or avoid this balance

in this sense one needs to understand and accept that whatever work you get is what you currently deserve according to your own karmic equation in this materialistic world
furthermore, one needs to understand and accept that whatever happens to you in your life (and i mean everything and in every second or moment of your life) is what you currently deserve according to your own karmic equation in this materialistic world

so the only way to improve any situation in life (not only work related ones) is to live in such a way that reduces your karmic burden, to choose it of your own will and conviction (because you think its the right thing to do, not because you want to profit from it)

it is possible to find a new job without losing anything that your current one offers though.

"Possible" is the operative word there. Many things can make or break the likelihood of moving to a new job either laterally or up the pay scale, most of which are outside the control of the job seeker. Locally, the job market is atrocious. There's almost no chance of trading one job for another without incurring some sort of loss. Usually benefits and/or pay, but not always. I know people who, despite their hatred for their job, go to work every day with a fake smile plastered on their face and bust their ass for far too little money, just so they can provide for their families. Hell, education isn't even a determining factor here. Most places specialize in some sort of physical labor, so it comes down to willing and able bodies - and there's no shortage of those. So quitting a job for any reason means that you'll be replaced right away but won't have much luck finding employment unless someone at another business quits or gets canned. It's terrible.

If you're in a position to make a change without losing something, thank your lucky stars. Good luck with your current quandary, by the way.

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Originally Posted by Sazzy

I feel like the only way to improve any work related situation is by leaving it and finding a new one.

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That depends entirely on the situation. Look here, for example. I had some drama, I filed a complaint, it actually worked and the problem was solved.

Quitting your job should be a last resort, if you can't make anything else work. It may not look good for a future employer, and you'll miss on things like loyalty bonuses and the general knowledge of how your work environment operates, which comes from months/years of experience (but don't let that one discourage you from leaving if you do get a better offer). And that's assuming you'll be able to break even, as gagaolala mentioned.

They realized it was silly and will show me an offer in a few days. Good times :lol:

So all that remains is confirming said offer is as good as you reasonably extrapolated :gsmile:

My drama turned out well too! Everything will be solved tomorrow. More details afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Sazzy

They realized it was silly and will show me an offer in a few days. Good times :lol:

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congrats sazz. we want a fckin party :D . I hope i could get to write something positive on this topic... :)

They showed me an offer the other day. Money was, as expected, better than what I have now. Some parts however were worse.
I will have to figure out now if it's still interesting or not. For one, I will have to see if I even gain any money in my bank account at the end of the month since I'll have to take care of some of the benefits I have now myself, if I would take the job. (think parking, mobile internet, ... ) Parking for one, is quite expensive. The money gain (after our high taxes) would have to still be worth it at the end. A quick calculation ended up with having 100 euro more than I have now and losing out on some things like getting to go to events. (parking alone is like 200-250 euro a month in this city and that would mean a 550 euro raise before taxes is needed to cover it alone!)

Cars is another thing. If there aren't any left over cars available, I get to pick a brand new one. Yay. If not, I might end up with a granny mobile that I have to drive for a few years that may or may not be painfully high taxed. (a tax shift made a lot of company cars very expensive on a monthly tax basis due to emissions, worth etc ). They also told me they couldn't get me some stuff I asked for since it was impossible, but I know some other people that got that while signing up. Again, I'm feeling ripped off. Even after telling them I knew of those people getting it.

I will have to do some thinking now. I kind of want to tell them I can't live with having the chance of getting someone else's car for longer than 6 months.
A car is a big part of my joy in life (material girl~), going from a bmw3 to a volkswagen touran or a volvo would suck the joy out of me in less than a year.
I might also get a deal with trading in some vacation days for parking, which would resolve that issue as well. I just need to know if it covers a whole year or not and how many days we're talking about. E.g.: 3-4 days for a whole year? Sure! 20 days? no f'ing way.

Calculate the net salary increase after all those things, and ask yourself: is the extra effort of making up for the lost perks worth this amount of money? But if all the benefits you get from your current company tend to be the exception rather than the rule with employers in your area, you have to weigh that too. I don't know how things work in Sazzyland, but here, the companies that would give you a car, parking and Internet access aren't many.

If at the end of the day, it's 100€ like you said, it doesn't sound worth it to me. But you can't sit down and wait for reality to throw you a job that has everything you're used to + larger salary either. You have all the details... think it through.

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Originally Posted by Sazzy

A car is a big part of my joy in life (material girl~), going from a bmw3 to a volkswagen touran or a volvo would suck the joy out of me in less than a year.

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You'll still be better than...

http://www.sb-innovation.de/attachme...chmentid=16469

Any news on this?

Was waiting it out to be sure, but ended up getting a pretty good deal for my age. Contract is signed! :lol:

That's great! Here's to a new work environment giving proper remuneration and without anyone calling you ugly or MS-DOS out of the blue. :brost:

Congrats sazzy :top: