BBC NEWS: Israel adds West Bank shrines to heritage list

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22.02.10, 11:48
SealLion

BBC NEWS: Israel adds West Bank shrines to heritage list

After having read this, I figured this is another attempt by Israel to assert control via illegal methods in establishing it's take on Palestinian real estate through additional methods that would, in eventuality, make Israel's assertion on newly claimed land 'legal'.

HEre's what I mean. Let's start by having a look at the news, shall we..

Quote:

Israel's prime minister has announced a controversial plan to add two major religious sites in the West Bank to the country's national heritage list.

The West Bank has always been in controversy. This I am sure you're aware of, yes??

Israel has been asserting an illegal land grab of Palestinian territory for quite a while now.
This of/c is done in concert with Israel's partner allies from the West. Namely some of the Euro states like the UK, Germany, the US, along with the support of other governments such as Canada.

This is done with mechanisms such as the wall that continues to be built, albeit some possibly staged victories for the Palestinians that recently occurred.
I do believe that I did make a post about that here in the news section recently too.

There was a news article in which I mentioned that Zionism is a nationalistic movement that was started long before any of you and me were born. Zionism, according to an article, which I'll link to you later.

Here's a quick rundown of the definition of Zionism ( a nationalistic movement) and what specifically this news article, of arranging the preservation of historic sites to the nationalistic movement of Zionism and the taking of Palestinian land by the Israelis have in common.

First here's the definition from a pretty good site:

Quote:

Zionism is more accurately described as a strategy for targeting thought and emotion as a means to influence behavior. Naïve Jews were its first victims..........Zionism........ binds to an extremist enclave. When, as now, policies of the Zionist state come under attack, media campaigns herald an outbreak of anti-Semitism and hatred -- not for Zionism but for Jews, enhancing recruitment.

By choosing to identify their interests with those of Zionism, Jews choose to make themselves feel insecure. Zionism relies for its success not only on deception but also on self-deceit........ (Zionists) elude accountability and even scrutiny as cries of “anti-Semitism” are deployed to intimidate and misdirect -- by manipulating thought and emotion

Peace is a perilous ‘state’ to be avoided at any cost by a nationalist ideology that thrives on serial crises wed to a perpetual state of conflict and fear. ........

Those who share such a mental state will ...... incite hatred to catalyze a reaction and then claim they are the victims of hate. For those inhabiting this mental state, it appears rational and even desirable to provoke a response and then claim to be a target of anti-Semites. Inside this internal state, self-absorption is all-encompassing with arrogance its most visible trait.

Here's the same link to this article which I gave a link to on an earlier post of mine:

LINK

The definition from my Encyclopedia Brittanica is not a very good one. I feel it's a little bit biased in being incorrect as it just gives the historical outline of the growth of Zionism.

And as such, I felt it to be inappropriate as I felt that defining what the purpose and goals of Zionism is, would be more appropriate.

Such are not really made mention of, thus the goal-oriented description I feel is more necessary here.

Now dont' get me all wrong here.
I like Israelis.
I think that Israel has an interesting history all it's own that spans many, many thousands of years.
IT's people have a culture all their own.

What I have against Israel (and it's internationally supportive allies ) is it's government, it's military, it's goals and purposes which are reflected daily in it's actions against a repressed people.

(Oh, and by-the-way, you can get the 4-5 GB Encyclopedia Brittanica from Vibes.cc. Tell them SealLion from SBI sent ya over :D)

So let's continue to read the news and tie it in all together with the colonialization of Palestinian lands and this nationalistic movement that, according to various articles, started in the 1800's. Though there is controversy that it did start much earlier than that.

Quote:

Israeli media said the two sites had been included on the list only after pressure from nationalist ministers

...nationalistic ministers. Did you read that??
nationalistic ministers most likely having nationalistic ideology that stems from Zionism.
Get it??]

Quote:

Addressing a cabinet meeting, Mr Netanyahu unveiled the two additions to the national heritage list.

He said the Tomb of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb had to be preserved because they showed Israel's ancient ties to the land.

Now we're getting somewhere. I strongly believe that Israel is undertaking this move to settle it's eventual claim on Palestinian lands, stronger. That is, to ensure that there will be no legitimate claim on former Palestinians lands, by Palestinians.

In having made this move to claim heritage on structures in the West Bank , Israel has secured ever-more an illegal claim on lands that do not rightfully belong to it.
No doubt, the US, some of the Euro states, and others (as mentioned above), support Israel. And if they haven't already, they will.

As for the Arab states in the region.......not a word.
Do countries like Egypt or Jordan say anything??...........Nope.

Quote:

Our existence here doesn't just depend on the might of the military or our economic and technological strength," ....... "It is anchored first and foremost in our national and emotional legacy."

Remember what the definition, which I stated above from the link, says about an emotional link to heritage and to subversify naive people into thinking on the same level??

Understand what I mean??

Quote:

The Tomb of the Patriarchs........has been a flashpoint for decades, with 500 Jewish settlers living in enclaves near the disputed site, surrounded by 170,000 Palestinians

disputed land that never has belonged to the Israelis.

The Israeli settlers there are on real-estate that has historically belonged to the Palestinians.

When Israel brings in settlers to claim land that it want's as part of Israel's geo-judicial borders, along with this article such as the BBC makes mention of, it will, in the eyes of international bodies and embassies inside Israel, strengthen it's hold on settled lands.

In effect, squeezing out the Palestinians further and further from their lands.

Quote:

Israel's West Bank barrier juts far into Bethlehem so that the tomb is located on the Israeli side, ostensibly for security reasons. However, Palestinians say it impedes their access and represents an illegal land grab.

Now, here's some more info to support, what I believe, ties in with nationalist Zionism, the taking of real-estate, and the emotional tie that Israelies are subverted to:

Quote:

Jewish settlers and nationalists, ..... said they were pleased with Mr Netanyahu's announcement and that they would press for additional biblical sites to be added to the list.

more land...
more claim....
more nationalism (Zionism)....
more emotional grip..
.more deciet....
more lies.

Quote:

"The purpose of the list... is to single out sites that are of great importance to the Jewish people,

It all ties in together, folks.
One last thing here before I give you the link to the BBC link:

Quote:

Close to 500,000 Jews live in more than 100 settlements built since Israel's 1967 occupation of the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. They are illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this.

And of course, highly supported by the US.
The US supports Israel because of very strong pro-Israeli lobby groups, Pro-Christian-Zionist groups, namely the fundamental Christian groups who are ever-so-self-deceiving.
Not just their own followers, but also themselves.

Here's the link;

Quote:

BBC News - Israel adds West Bank shrines to heritage list

One last thing. I've decided to include here a video from YT on how Zionism works, how people who are Zionists inside Israel behave, the history of Zionism inside Israel, and how it affects Palestinians. Pay attention near to the end on how the speaker talks of an Intefaddah of Resistance, inside Israel.

Here how he talks of the Isrealis fearing, that's emotional ties to Zionism. How he talks of Israel colonizing Palestinian's land, and of conspiracy to settle Palestinian lands.
Conspiracy, you say....??
Watch the video and you'll hear something interesting.

If you do decide to have a further look on YT on Zionism, do take care to filter for something that at least represents something reputable, of/c

The below YT video talks about Zionism.
IT is Part II.
You can look for the other parts on YT, if you like.
The video here is about 10 mins. long.

Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbU-ztLDJwU

enjoy:smile:

Quote:

PS: I really wonder if the Israelis are becoming, who were from WW II, their worst enemy.
It seems ever more like similarities are binding the Israelis to the worst criminals that European history ever had.
And those, I think you know were the the same people that made the death camps, the ghettos.......and so on.....
Is there any difference between the two??
Not in my opinion.

0
22.02.10, 12:17
saebrtooth

I agree with you SL its not the people at fault its the Governments of their countries.

You wont see on major new networks Isrealis and Palistinians working together side by side against the Isreals occupation you just wont but you'll see it on youtube.

You wont see Isrealis protesting against their own Government about Isreal's occupation of the West Bank on any major news station but you might find some videos on youtube.

You know it makes it really hard to bash the new evil empire when they have such a good and free service.

Just like Japan and its whaling in Australian waters Im sure not every Japanese likes to encroach upon the sovereign territory of another country but its their Government that allows these things. I will repeat what I hae said before: Governments of a country may not neccesarily represent fully the opionions of the masses and even do contrary to the masses opinion.

Unfortunatly Big Business have big sway in determining Government policies and actions. Just follow the money trail.

By the way I registered on vibes.cc and found nothing with "brittancia" when browsing the torrents.
23.02.10, 01:51
SealLion

nope, you won't see such things on the potential disappointment of the Israeli people being upset with their government's actions, though maybe there is only a small percentage that does disprove of it's government's actions in matters such as this.

As for the people having separate views of their government's actions, that is correct.

Most obviously that exists, but as I made mention of in one of my earlier post, if voters inside Israel would stop tolerating these sort of abuses from their governments, you wouldn't see this sort of garbage happening.

But there is a point that is an addendum to my point here which you'll read shortly about.

Firstly, this was made to happen.
It was construed and designed to happen.
This wasn't just something that just fell out of the sky and landed on somebody's lap to hand out, it was intentional to have happened as a way for Israel to continue it's land grab of Palestinian lands away from those people.
Plain and simply put.

Secondly, is it supported??.............of course it is.
It's supported by various elements.

Here's a short list:
The settlers support these moves;
The allies of Israel support these moves; and
Religious and political extremists inside Israel support these moves.

With respect to the general population such as the settlers they most obviously support these measures, since this involves the claim and further settlement of Palestinian lands,
So going to your point, I disagree that the opinions of the government differ from the opinions of the people. In this case, the people that we're talking about are the settlers.

The settlers have the most to gain. More land sold off cheaply to Israelis to settle lands that was taken illegally by the Israeli government.

They are sold cheaply as an incentive to settle these lands.

As such, the people (the settlers, specifically) support their government's initiatives in taking more and more real-estate that will undoubtedly be strongly desired to be settled.

As for the other 2 parties mentioned above. That's pretty obvious and we've had discussion of those on many occasions before.

Watch this video and pay attention to how supportive the settlers are in their desire to retain these lands and the fervent belief that these lands were God-given lands. They may have been God-given lands, but historically, Isrealis shared these lands with other peoples. They did not own these lands seperatly from others. They shared them.

I'll let you watch the video and hear how strongly the settlers believe in these lands of being their own. For the record, the video was from CNN rather than AJE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiDS7dFuA1g
23.02.10, 05:50
saebrtooth

Quote:

Originally Posted by SealLion

As for the people having separate views of their government's actions, that is correct.

Most obviously that exists, but as I made mention of in one of my earlier post, if voters inside Israel would stop tolerating these sort of abuses from their governments, you wouldn't see this sort of garbage happening.

Looks like my arguement falls flat on its face in this case. Governemts can only go so far but with internal support they can go too far even to war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SealLion

Firstly, this was made to happen.
It was construed and designed to happen.
This wasn't just something that just fell out of the sky and landed on somebody's lap to hand out, it was intentional to have happened as a way for Israel to continue it's land grab of Palestinian lands away from those people.
Plain and simply put. .

If it wernt for the collective support of many organisations and countries yes Israel would not have much to stand upon when trying to steal land from the Palestinians. If if were not for internation support they for the same actions of illegal occupation of another country they would probably face the same consequences as the famed Gulf War as when Saddam Hussein was invading Kuwait where Hussein was trying to takeover resources and land much like the situation is now with Israel and Palestine. Except of course there is a tacit understanding that you Israel can and will do whatever they want without backlash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SealLion

Secondly, is it supported??.............of course it is.
It's supported by various elements.

Here's a short list:
The settlers support these moves;
The allies of Israel support these moves; and
Religious and political extremists inside Israel support these moves. .

Its often the case that these same mentioned groups hold massive financial sway in one form or another and so unscrupulous people in power with one whiff of the dollar they faint at the feet of their master.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SealLion

With respect to the general population such as the settlers they most obviously support these measures, since this involves the claim and further settlement of Palestinian lands,
So going to your point, I disagree that the opinions of the government differ from the opinions of the people. In this case, the people that we're talking about are the settlers..

True true, someone in goverment has the imagination to steal land and the people give them that will and thus authority. But as before, there are many good and bad in any country. But what is the collective energy doing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SealLion

The settlers have the most to gain. More land sold off cheaply to Israelis to settle lands that was taken illegally by the Israeli government.

They are sold cheaply as an incentive to settle these lands.

As such, the people (the settlers, specifically) support their government's initiatives in taking more and more real-estate that will undoubtedly be strongly desired to be settled. .

The settlers and the Israeli government have most to gain. Settlers gain because they get cheap land. After they die the government will want to control that [edit] ill-gotten Palestinian land.

To memory, please correct me if Im wrong, some Israelis are given free land, free housing and money to settle in parts of the westbank, if they were resided there for and this is the one which eludes me, for 5 or 10 years. after which everything which the Palestinian land which they occupy wait for it... belongs to that settler compliments of the Israeli government. And they also get a non-loan grant.
23.02.10, 13:22
slikrapid

Quote:

Zionism...Naïve Jews were its first victims...

its partially correct - they were chosen (ideologically by zionists) to play the role of unwanted citizens (through their education/upbringing/life, as it seems there has been a general animosity towards the jews at the time, throughout europe & russia) before converging towards israel in a mass-settling way - this was an intentional plan of the zionists, to create & maintain a certain 'victim' image, so it could later be exploited in many ways (for example, because they are the default victims, its expected that they should have privileges, their requests to have priority and so on), and the zionists certainly used this (controlling international perception of jews, but also the jewish perception of themselves, especially when uniting against 'the common enemy' - usually whoever dared to question their status/motives/legitimacy), as a basis for preparing/creating/populating the state of israel, but also for strengthening their power/influence/control of various segments of the society in general (globally)

imo they are victims of zionist plans, yet at the same time also benefiting from the help & protection of zionist organizations - naturally, by adding biased religious reasoning ('god chosen' people/land) it provides yet another layer supporting/justifying their actions (as they see it or have been indoctrinated to perceive it)

its suffices to monitor media reports on related subjects, to notice a pattern of repeating phrases/expressions used to fortify the universal victim image, attempting to stretch it into infinite future, while serving everyone else with a large unhealthy dosage of imaginary guilt that creates a need to rectify the myth of everlasting suffering, one that during the last decade or so, has serious problems, not only with retaining its previously untouchable status, but also with covering a multitude of inconvenient facts surrounding it & concerning its origins

Quote:

Originally Posted by SealLion

When Israel brings in settlers to claim land that it want's as part of Israel's geo-judicial borders, along with this article such as the BBC makes mention of, it will, in the eyes of international bodies and embassies inside Israel, strengthen it's hold on settled lands.

true, its the years old tactics of mass settling, that eventually, even if someone complains, results in better future negotiating positions and beneficial power/control distribution

Quote:

a video from YT on how Zionism works, how people who are Zionists inside Israel behave, the history of Zionism inside Israel

this journalist should work on his oratory skills, he has a tendency to skip/blur words :eek13:

his 'glass wall' comment reminded me of the 'invisible' walls between the rich & poor/others in a country or between leading & developing countries, where they seemingly live together, yet in reality far from it

haven't watched all video parts, but from first impressions imo the journalist is still too oriented on the surface of events, not going deep enough, beyond the simple political action-reaction relations, didn't hear much of the history either...