Write/Read speed of CDs

[piratemeister]

Hi @all guys.
I would put a question... the write speed (52x... 2x.... 4x.... 1x....) will influence the read speed or quality of CD ? Is real I should write lower the PSX games ?

Is possible know the write speed used for write a CD ?

PS: I use ImgBurn. Thanks :top:

(anon I know you know that...)

[cheatos]

Hi @all guys.
I would put a question... the write speed (52x... 2x.... 4x.... 1x....) will influence the read speed or quality of CD ? Is real I should write lower the PSX games ?

1) Instab (and some internet sites) says that the lowest burn speed will result into a better quality.

2) For my PSX I always burn at the Max possible speed and my PSX's laser is still working fine for me. (Console age is now 11 years old), there is one condition thought, you need to have a quality burner (like Sony, Samsung...).

Solution!: burn at moderate speeds lol


Is possible know the write speed used for write a CD ?

?
If you mean to know what speed ImgBurn will burn it, then it will be written some where in the log,
"Max speed effectively set ...etc" or something like that.

If you mean the Max speed the CD can be burnt with, then it is written on the disc.


(anon I know you know that...)

Hehe, sure he does.

[DEViL.eXE]

You can get a better result so burn it with 4x.

[piratemeister]

Unfortunatly on my portable PC the speed is between 10x and 24x, I can't select lower/higher values. And my "normal PC" I have LG burner. I think with this I can select lower speeds or fastest (Now I can't try, because I'm waiting new motherboard).

Lower speed better quality ? Ok... but I'm interested also to know why this happen... and the read speed is influenced ?

I was meaning... when I've a burned CD, can I know the speed used for burn it ? And this this speed influence the read quality ? You said yes because said low is better but the read speed is the same ?

The problem is I must burn PSX games and I'm looking for best solution because I've used more than 25 CDs (I pack) and games work only sometimes... I use Verbatim certified 52x.

[slikrapid]

@IlSoldato:


Unfortunatly on my portable PC the speed is between 10x and 24x, I can't select lower/higher values

then avoid using it for burning cd's (otherwise use 24x)


And my "normal PC" I have LG burner. I think with this I can select lower speeds or fastest

it should be possible, i'd recommend around 24x (not too slow, not too fast), basically as cheatos said, some speed in between (but closer to the max. value)

fi. for dvd's i use 8x, even though the dvd's are 16x rated and the burner can do 16x max. too - why 8x? because it doesn't put too much strain on the drive and avoids having problems with media that may be less-than-perfect for the job (not quite 16x as it says on the label), also it won't take much more time to burn


Lower speed better quality ? Ok... but I'm interested also to know why this happen... and the read speed is influenced ?

the read speed should not be influenced by the previously used burn speed

lower is better up to a point, too low doesn't make sense and any possible gain in quality (which is likely too small anyways) will be countered by significant loss of time needed to do it


I've used more than 25 CDs (I pack) and games work only sometimes... I use Verbatim certified 52x.

verbatim makes good dvd's, not sure about their cd quality
sometimes older 'burners' have problems with newer cd/dvd media - this might happen to older 'readers' as well

[anon]

1) Instab (and some internet sites) says that the lowest burn speed will result into a better quality.

I know using lower speeds will reduce the chances of something going wrong, but as far as I know there's no difference between a CD burnt at 2x and one at 52x if both pass the verification.

I'm reckless and burn my discs at maximum speed. So far so good :happy:

[Renji-Kun]

for me is a matter of what type of cd/dvd media you have and what type of drive
i heard that LG can burn in any media but the quality of the burn is low

so i guess using a better drive with a proper cd/dvd media will give a better quality no matter the speed

the fact is that so many media have been done poorly lately
well at least for dvd i always check if the media is good here (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia)

i have a pioner drive and i burn at high speeds as anon and never had problem
only DL media i burn at low speeds

[piratemeister]

DL Media ? Like downloaded PSX games ? Should I burn slow ? mmmm...

[DEViL.eXE]

What's your problem ? Burn it slow and you should have no problems.

[piratemeister]

My game often don't work ok, like don't start or block during the game, and I'm sure is a problem of burning.

[DEViL.eXE]

Which dvds are you using ?

[piratemeister]

Verbatim certified 52x, but max burn speed of my portable PC (the only I can use now) is 24x.

[DEViL.eXE]

DVD-R or DVD+R ?

[piratemeister]

PSX Games... CD!!!

[DEViL.eXE]

I don't know if you playing on psx or ps2. Which CD you are using + or - ?

[piratemeister]

On PSX. CD-R

[DEViL.eXE]

You can try to use + and clonecd.

[Renji-Kun]

also you can try alcohol 120%
i realize that some games burn better in alcohol than imgburn

you can choose the ps1 tag in alcohol burn settings
just try it

[cheatos]

Hmm,


Are you sure that the images are not corrupted while downloading?
Did you try burning on a different PC? Same Verbatim CDs, Different CDs ..etc
How old is your PSX, Are you sure your laser is still strong, can you read original games? can you read other discs other than Verbatims normally?
Some Verbatims works and others not or ALL verbatims are not working?
As TheShutter suggested, use different programs like CloneCD EDIT: feanime's suggestion is also good.
If there is a cue file, select it instead of bin (imgburn should do this by itself? i am not sure).
Can your PSX's modchip play NTSC games, Europe's region code is PAL, you may need to get PAL versions.


Most importantly, Is the game Final Fantasy IX (or google anti modchip psx games)?, this game has some protection on it and you might need to patch it before burning.

[Instab]

I know using lower speeds will reduce the chances of something going wrong, but as far as I know there's no difference between a CD burnt at 2x and one at 52x if both pass the verification.

I'm reckless and burn my discs at maximum speed. So far so good :happy:

my PSX, PS2 and a number of older audio cd-players worked better and better with every step downwards i took regarding burning speed.
same gös for durability. over the years cds/dvds burned at low speeds proved to work much better after a few years. no matter which media or burner.

[piratemeister]

I alreay tried other softwares for me ImgBurn is the best.

@Cheatos
1.Yes, tried varius games, and tried to run the ISOs also with ePSXe 1.7.0
2.No, actually I can't, I'm waiting the new motherboard for my "PC for Games" and I will try with his burner
3.Yes I'm sure laser work ok. I tried 1 original games. The games wich I burn sometimes work, and I've seen differenza between burned at 10x or 24x (not in all games)
4.I always use Verbatim... I'm sure the CDs are ok. Some friends with PSX also use Verbatim (or TDK)
5.Already triend CloneCD and Alchohol 120% (also nero and dvd decrypter) and same result. I use ImgBurn because IMHO is better
6.I know how to burn the varius virtual IMG. ImgBurn can burn .bin files, also without his .cue ! But usually I use the .cue... or .ccd... depends which is the downloaded file.
7.Yes I get PAL version... and when is possible, I get always the version with italian language inside! (Not all games have italian... if not I use english, except for some like the first Metal Slug wich if I remember corretly is only in japan)

I don't play final fantasy games (for now...), because I tried 1 for PS2 and I don't like it.


my PSX, PS2 and a number of older audio cd-players worked better and better with every step downwards i took regarding burning speed.
same goes for durability. over the years cds/dvds burned at low speeds proved to work much better after a few years. no matter which media or burner.

I'm curius to understand if this is true and why happen this. If really, and there is no difference to read speed, I will burn all slower !!

[cheatos]

I'm waiting the new motherboard for my "PC for Games" and I will try with his burner

perfect


3.Yes I'm sure laser work ok. I tried 1 original games. The games wich I burn sometimes work, and I've seen differenza between burned at 10x or 24x (not in all games)

What happens if you burned with 2x speed? (as instab would always say and as you said in your 1st post)
If a speed always works for you then its fine, no need to change it if you ask me.

---

Also How about a screenshot of some various Imgburn dialogs, a screenshot showing the loaded image, book-type settings, some info about your burner, discID (some verbatims are made in India and they are known for their lower quality)..etc and be sure to hide sensitive personal information.

----
A stupid question, What does your PS1 (or X, any difference ?) look like ?

My PlayStation is a grey big console, if yours is a white small console then I've heard that they tend to break faster than fat PS1s for now apparent reason...

[shoulder]

I used to burn my X360 games which require DLs before I got my JTAG one.
I always used the highest available speed wherever I burnt them, being it my Notebook or my Desktop, with Verbatim blanks and I have never had any problems.

Can you try your CDs on another PSX?
Did you verify your copies after burning?

[piratemeister]

What happens if you burned with 2x speed? (as instab would always say and as you said in your 1st post)
If a speed always works for you then its fine, no need to change it if you ask me.
Depends from the game, and I can try only between 10x and 24x with this burner. In one game I've burned at 10x and some problems... and is unplayble (screen stops ecc.). The same at 24x and work ok. Another at 10x work ok. Instead burned at 24x after some time playing it don't work anymore (block during loading). And some others problem like this, for that I'm asking if writing speed influence reading speed/quality.


Also How about a screenshot of some various Imgburn dialogs, a screenshot showing the loaded image, book-type settings, some info about your burner, discID (some verbatims are made in India and they are known for their lower quality)..etc and be sure to hide sensitive personal information.
Instead i think the Verbatim (all the people I know said that) are the best. I will post a screenshot of ImgBurn and info because not visible (1 Verbatim ready to burn inside the burner).
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1794/burnimg.jpg

TSSTcorp CDDVDW TS-L633L 0500 (SATA)
Current Profile: CD-R

Disc Information:
Status: Empty
State of Last Session: Empty
Erasable: No
Free Sectors: 359.844
Free Space: 736.960.512 bytes
Free Time: 79:59:69 (MM:SS:FF)
Next Writable Address: 0
Supported Write Speeds: 10x; 16x; 20x; 24x

ATIP Information:
Disc ID: 97m26s66f
Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Start Time of LeadIn: 97m26s66f
Last Possible Start Time of LeadOut: 79m59s71f

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x08; B1: 0x00; B2: 0x00; B3: 0x00
-> EL: 359834 (0x00057D9A)
-> RS: 4.224 KB/s (24x) - WS: 1.760 KB/s (10x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x08; B1: 0x00; B2: 0x00; B3: 0x00
-> EL: 359834 (0x00057D9A)
-> RS: 4.224 KB/s (24x) - WS: 2.816 KB/s (16x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x08; B1: 0x00; B2: 0x00; B3: 0x00
-> EL: 359834 (0x00057D9A)
-> RS: 4.224 KB/s (24x) - WS: 3.520 KB/s (20x)
Descriptor 4...
-> B0: 0x08; B1: 0x00; B2: 0x00; B3: 0x00
-> EL: 359834 (0x00057D9A)
-> RS: 4.224 KB/s (24x) - WS: 4.224 KB/s (24x)


A stupid question, What does your PS1 (or X, any difference ?) look like ?

My PlayStation is a grey big console, if yours is a white small console then I've heard that they tend to break faster than fat PS1s for now apparent reason...
Grey Big... like this (But I use cable and dualshocks of PS2, and 3 of 4 memory card are not original):
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2932/psxsys.jpg

EDIT:
Can you try your CDs on another PSX?
Did you verify your copies after burning?
No, I can't... have a sense verify the copies or simulate the burn ? I've never done these thing.... maybe 1 time for try.

[DEViL.eXE]

ImgBurn only say you that your emulation drive can make perfomance problems but don't worry.

[piratemeister]

ImgBurn only say you that your emulation drive can make perfomance problems but don't worry.
How I can resolve the problem ? Emulation Drive ?

I will answer tomorrow, I go to bed, thx for help guys.

[shoulder]

have a sense verify the copies
Well, it checks if the burnt copy equals the image.

[Renji-Kun]

actualy i guess is something to worry
long time ago i had a problem with that

daemon or alcohol install this driver and cause problems
for example if he put the media to verify this will give errors... that's a sign this CAN cause a problem for write

try to uninstall daemon and/or alcohol just to get rid of that to test
also as shulder said is good to test the cd's on other PSX

but now you poit this message i guess it could help if u can get rid of that because i have problems with it too

[cheatos]

And some others problem like this, for that I'm asking if writing speed influence reading speed/quality.

Experiencing problems like yours is certainly not right,
Also I don't think your burn speeds are the real cause of your problems, because you tried at slow and high rates.


I will post a screenshot of ImgBurn and info because not visible (1 Verbatim ready to burn inside the burner).

I see nothing wrong (eye-catching) in that screenshot hmm...

Maybe your PS1 isn't liking verbatims, this can happen, buy/try other brands (lower quality than verbatim or higher) (I use Imation for CDs).


Grey Big...

Ok, thats good.


How I can resolve the problem ?

Uninstall Daemon tools and use VirtualClone CD.

feanime was faster...

[DEViL.eXE]

I don't had any problems with my emulation drive and imgburn. If you want to fix it only deinstall your emulation software. He can use daemon tools but not with advanced emulation you can choose it at the installation.

[Instab]

I used to burn my X360 games which require DLs before I got my JTAG one.
I always used the highest available speed wherever I burnt them, being it my Notebook or my Desktop, with Verbatim blanks and I have never had any problems.

hehe, the xbox360 came 10 years later. güss which drive has more tolerance ... :P

[Renji-Kun]

and other thing i notice now looking at your screens
the MANUFACTURER of your verbatin is CMC magnectics corp u see the label with a true verbatin but in fact is a CMC media
some of the manufacturers make poor quality media

unfortunately i don't know any trusted site with cd brands and manufacturer i just know that one i told but is for DVD

[Resurrection]

Hi @all guys.
I would put a question... the write speed (52x... 2x.... 4x.... 1x....) will influence the read speed or quality of CD ? Is real I should write lower the PSX games ?

Is possible know the write speed used for write a CD ?

PS: I use ImgBurn. Thanks :top:


I'm shocked speechless that you still CDs...Next thing you'll tell me you still use those Retro Rotary Dial Phones... :shock:

[Instab]

I'm shocked speechless that you still CDs...Next thing you'll tell me you still use those Retro Rotary Dial Phones... :shock:

he wants to burn and use games for his PSX so he must use cds.

[Resurrection]

he wants to burn and use games for his PSX so he must use cds.

Yeah that's the thing...PSX is soooo old and hard to find...

The fact that he's still using it is crazy( and slightly cool :wgrin:)...

[Instab]

and slightly cool :wgrin:)...

hehe, it is. some trü classics are available for the PSX and if you wanna feel the original you gotta do it that way (can remember how i was totally hooked to Biohazard (Resident Evil))

[wordreader]

Yeh, Media could be the problem. I have 3 burners on my machine, all of varying ages: 1yr, 2yr and 5 years old. It took me awhile to find media compatible for all three: I mean I went through a lot of disks that became Frisbees. At one point I was so convinced that it was the actual burner itself, I returned one, bought another, returned, bought.... I got so frustrating because the media I burned would work on the computer optical drives and then--not work in my stand alone DVD players for TV or CD's for car audio. In other words, I'll bet it's the media.

[piratemeister]

Well, it checks if the burnt copy equals the image.
And is needed do that ? Why the copy shouldn't be equal ?


feanime
Thanks for the advice, I will try but I need to use virtual drive for mount images... there is a free software wich don't install this drive ? Virtual Clone CD don't support some img format.


He can use daemon tools but not with advanced emulation you can choose it at the installation.
Difference ? What's the advanced emulation ? So I will reainstall daemon tools without that...


Maybe your PS1 isn't liking verbatims, this can happen, buy/try other brands (lower quality than verbatim or higher) (I use Imation for CDs).
But why ? Are all CDs... and Verbatim is not bad, all use Verbatims.

[LuluShoutX]

Hi @all guys.
I would put a question... the write speed (52x... 2x.... 4x.... 1x....) will influence the read speed or quality of CD ? Is real I should write lower the PSX games ?



Check this article: Q. Why does the speed at which you burn a CD make a difference? (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov04/articles/qa1104-3.htm)
When you burn at low speed quality is higher because dots/bumps position is more accurate. If your cd-rom is old, it can expect CD with factory quality (all bumps has their correct place), while high speed burning cannot reproduce.

Verbatim and TDK are the best CD-R(W) for old drives.

[shoulder]

And is needed do that ? Why the copy shouldn't be equal ?
Because of errors while burning?

[takomania]

i haven't had to dig into my vault of ps1 'backup' knowledge for years, buuut...

best media for the original ps1 builds (fat greys) is either verbatim, taiyo yuden, tdk blacks or kodak golds (taiyo make the best discs on the planet - BAR NONE - depends on how much pride you have in your piracy)

burn slow. ps1, ps2 and psx lasers are awful - no exceptions on batches or builds. 4x used to be the standard. yeah, you can burn at max, but you're going to increase wear on your laser and potentially get bad results (more on this below...)

there seems to be conflicting views here on burn speeds and speeds affecting reading....
burn slow for ps1 and ps2 cds. the quality of the burn IS affected. sure, a generic computer burner/reader wont have problems reading the discs, but your ps laser is nowhere near the same quality of even the crappiest drives desktop computer optical drives.

burning verification = close to pointless.
if a laser is misaligned, it can burn fine. if you verify the burn in the same drive (i.e. using the same misaligned laser) it will be verified fine.
take that disc to another machine/device with a less tolerant laser, you'll get skips and crc errors.
if a laser burns badly - the same laser can read the bad burn perfectly, but others will not always be successful.
think of it like handwriting. if you jot notes down in your illegible scrawl for yourself, it's fine, as it's only you who has to read it, but if you pass the notes to someone else, they're gonna have problems...

once again with speed - 8 speed burns are going to play fine. BUT, try a burn of that speed on an fmv heavy game. FFVIII springs to mind as one that caused headaches back in the day - the intro and all other cut scenes would skip like crazy (ruining the experience) but the gameplay would be fine.

fmv heavy = burn slow
everything else = higher speed burns are fine

software - back in the day, discjuggler, imgburn and another one (the name escapes me) were the most used, just down to the image types which groups released.
i always favoured imgburn, though a couple of scene releases specifically required discjuggler down to them using some software specific image encoding.

if you are having problems launching your burnt games, depending on what the games are, they may need to be patched. paradox released their ppf-o-matic tool during the height of the ps1 scene as protections were introduced. 90% of scene images which were released were untouched and needed to be patched. if you are being faced with black screens instead of load screens, you're gonna have to patch your images before burning.


argh - whilst i remember - on the subject of media once again - low speed media can be a pain in the ass to find nowadays (depending on where you are). make sure you're using it IN CONJUNCTION WITH A DRIVE THAT CAN WRITE AT LOW SPEEDS.

that's a biggie.

i really should be working at the moment, so i'll cut off here - if you have more questions, just pm and tell me to look at the thread - i'm so lax with stuff like that :P

oh - and for anyone who's interested...

Did you know: Slow write speeds + modern drives + modern media = no good - Club MyCE (http://club.myce.com/f33/slow-write-speeds-modern-drives-modern-media-no-good-247643/)

food for the mind ;)

[piratemeister]

Now I tried to burn at max speed (AWS), and game had only 1 block (didn't start) and 1 "crash" (block during loading), all the other times worked ok... for now.

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------

Now I've seen some other problem... more block, can't restart game from the menu, problem with audio... I've reburned the ISO and the verify say me a lot of error, is maybe the burner ?

[Instab]

Did you know: Slow write speeds + modern drives + modern media = no good - Club MyCE (http://club.myce.com/f33/slow-write-speeds-modern-drives-modern-media-no-good-247643/)

food for the mind ;)

be careful with such articles. just because newer hardware can do it faster dösn't mean it is better. further most of those articles lack any kind of proof. in the end forget about all theory and try it out.
old and crappy drives are excellent test subjects. a PSX for cd for example or early PS2 models for dvd are great. you can hear the laser working and the more it struggles the worse the disc is. it's just that easy. also as mentioned above fmv or loading times are good indicators, too.

[takomania]

early PS2 models for dvd are great. you can hear the laser working and the more it struggles the worse the disc is.

very true - some ps2 lasers sound like they're in agony when they read crappy backups :)