Jupiter Ascending

[slikrapid]

different people, different tastes or interests or opinions

deeper meaning goes beyond that what a viewer thinks of a movie, beyond what the original movie-maker intended with a movie, beyond what a critic noticed in a movie, beyond the genre definitions,... - it speaks of the purpose of this movie or its contents/elements within the reality we perceive

the most wholesome charm of anything is in the truth (about that thing), which also means in its deeper meaning

quoting birdman here:

'a thing is a thing, not what you think of that thing'

[Sazzy]

what if there is no deeper meaning?

[DarkSaibot v.1.3.10]

'a thing is a thing, not what you think of that thing'

a thing becomes a thing when you're thinking about that thing is a thing

it speaks of the purpose of this movie or its contents/elements within the reality we perceive

the purpose of movies or any other mass media productions is simple - money and second : the subliminal message ,crowd control and other Deeper meanings that start to be a thing when you realise that's a thing

mostly agree with slikrapid point of views because somehow i find myself when i was searching a deeper meaning in anything and everything until i realised that is Exhausting and life has no charm anymore in this way ( is like i'm a programmer for a video game , realising and working with what's inside the game , make's me to disgust the game to play anymore)

The Biggest manipulation and lie of the matrix is to make you think that you don't live anymore in the matrix and you have found the exit point

[slikrapid]

what if there is no deeper meaning?

a thing without a deeper meaning does not exist, that deeper meaning is its original meaning, thus defining it for what it is - only if a thing does not exist (not manifested in any way), it has no (original) meaning

what we perceive as meaning is our idea of what it might be, not what it really is
if a hundred people were able to reach the original meaning of some thing, all hundred of them would perceive exactly the same or have the same understanding of that thing (caveat: their vocal expression may differ though, trying to explain that meaning in words, and the like)

@DarkSaibot v.1.3.10:

a thing becomes a thing when you're thinking about that thing is a thing

that thing existed before you started observing or thinking about it
what you get in your mind is 'your idea of what it might be that you are observing', 'what you think of it'

the purpose of movies or any other mass media productions is simple - money and second : the subliminal message ,crowd

what the production company wants is one thing, what they get is another
the same applies to the scriptwriters, directors, viewers, critics, other interested or involved individuals or organizations, the societies, the economy, the era, etc.
they are like pieces of a puzzle or parts of a machinery, no piece/part controls the outcome or defines itself independently - they are not aware of how they fit into this puzzle nor of its actual or original purpose - it is the same with anything else they might use or deal with (movies, words, thoughts, the subconscious, money,...)

The Biggest manipulation and lie of the matrix is to make you think that you don't live anymore in the matrix and you have found the exit point

the real matrix is the matrix of our senses, belonging to this materialistic world/reality we perceive (if you think of this statement as the deeper meaning of the movie matrix, or one aspect of it, you'll notice that it is somewhat different from what the movie-makers intended or showed - in their version, the materialistic world was outside of the VR matrix, ie. was still representing 'the real world', etc.)

the exit point is called transcendence (another thing known for thousands of years, at least in the east)

and just because we (currently) cannot understand something does not make it a lie or manipulation

note: was not talking about that (political? power? conspiratorial?) 'matrix' you mentioned above

[Sazzy]

how can there be a deeper meaning if the original meaning is the deeper meaning. In that case it isn't deeper than the original.

[DarkSaibot v.1.3.10]

that thing existed before you started observing or thinking about it
what you get in your mind is 'your idea of what it might be that you are observing', 'what you think of it'

agree but in the same time you have mentioned

a thing without a deeper meaning does not exist,

the ideea is that a deeper meaning it depends from each person point of view, so in the same time, all the things are real things, and also no things, depending on the point of view

for example planet mars is a real thing but since it dosen't affect me directly is not a real thing for me even if is a thing , sometimes ignorance is a bliss , since if we start to learn much more and gain more info we realise that we don't actually know nothing

in life is better to be sometimes ignorant then aware of everything - it makes life more simpler

i will add more later - i'm in a hurry right now

best wishes for all

[slikrapid]

how can there be a deeper meaning if the original meaning is the deeper meaning. In that case it isn't deeper than the original.

the original meaning is the deepest it gets - it is contained (at least partially) in all other meanings, regardless of their particular depth, all other meanings are derived from the original - the original is that archetype mentioned in another thread (and the hundred people example mentioned above)

a way to visualize it: the original meaning is at the core of things (like the earth's core, highest density, full of meaning), all others are of lesser depth (between the core and the surface), the most obvious are at the surface (superficial!), the unclear/fragmented meanings may be viewed as chaotic & disconnected from the thing they are attempting to describe (like matter outside of the earth, floating through the air), whereas completely non-attached meanings have no meaning themselves and thus fade into nothingness (comparable to the void of the outer space)

where are humans 'located' in this story? on the surface, just like their current ability of determining the deeper meaning of things (which is superficial, trying to penetrate to the core of the thing they are attempting to describe or understand, as the core draws them closer like gravity)

notice how the multitude of meanings available 'in the air' or 'on the surface' or 'in a large layer close to the surface' can make one think how he got to some deeper meaning (quantity), whereas true depth (quality) lies in another direction (the core of things)

example: the deepest/original meaning of your self is located in your own core, your true self (as opposed to the superficial or even fragmented false self)

[Sazzy]

"deeper" indicates there is more than one, regardless of context.

[slikrapid]

a deeper meaning it depends from each person point of view, so in the same time, all the things are real things, and also no things, depending on the point of view
...
but since it dosen't affect me directly is not a real thing for me

your point of view does not define objective reality (what really is), it defines your subjective reality (what you think it is, according to your depth of perception or closeness to that core mentioned above)

sometimes ignorance is a bliss

time for another birdman quote? 'the unexpected virtue of ignorance'
at our current stage a certain amount of ignorance is needed or inevitable since we cannot comprehend or handle the fullness of the truth

"deeper" indicates there is more than one, regardless of context.

you're confusing original meaning of things (archetype) with 'original' interpreters of this meaning (individuals, cultures,...)
original = the deepest
others = lesser depth, depend on the original (no original, no possibility of interpreting it)

[DarkSaibot v.1.3.10]

your point of view does not define objective reality (what really is), it defines your subjective reality (what you think it is, according to your depth of perception or closeness to that core mentioned above)

and who decided "what really is " and based on what point of view? and who decided that , how can prove that it was not defined on a subjective reality and after that mass acceptated without any other question

for example what if reality is not real ? and how it was defined , by who, on wich type of point of view .
who definess insanity? who definess ugliness ? by playing on an Exaggerated Level and fun way with this questions

time for another birdman quote? 'the unexpected virtue of ignorance'
at our current stage a certain amount of ignorance is needed or inevitable since we cannot comprehend or handle the fullness of the truth

agree with this

[slikrapid]

@DarkSaibot v.1.3.10:

you're confusing 'human definitions of things' with 'that which exists before a human can attempt to observe or define it' or 'that which is beyond human definitions'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

so if this elephant represents 'the ultimate reality' or 'what really is' or 'objective reality', our current state is 'blind' (perceiving subjective reality, own interpretation of the elephant, with own superficial definitions), our transcendental destination is 'enlightened' (perceiving objective reality, the elephant in its objective fullness/wholesomeness, though still unable to comprehend all aspects of the elephant)

who is able to comprehend all aspects of the elephant? only he who creates objective reality, who created the elephant (its origin/originator/original cause)

note: the elephant can be understood as representing both the materialistic & spiritual world at the same time or either one, the point of the story is similar

[DarkSaibot v.1.3.10]

you're confusing 'human definitions of things' with 'that which exists before a human can attempt to observe or define it' or 'that which is beyond human definitions'

yes but what it was before human it can't be spoken/writted or explained in a point of view that does not define a type of subjective reality hence all the info is subjective info ..what it was before or what it will be in a transcendental way is interpreted not proven hence not a thing until you make 'it a thing

( don't worry if i don't get it ) ( i'm just having fun with deep conversations , i don't treat this serious even i what i write is my own beliefs - hence subjective interpretations ) :p :)

who is able to comprehend all aspects of the elephant? only he who creates objective reality, who created the elephant (its origin/originator/original cause)

very agree

[slikrapid]

hence not a thing until you make 'it a thing

but in order for you to 'make it a thing' (meaning: make sense of what it may be, get an idea of what it is), it needs to exist prior to your own observation, so:

1. the thing exists (regardless of its actual true form, like an archetype)
2. you arrive at the scene
3. you observe, perceive the thing, make your conclusions about it <-- now you 'made it a thing' in your mind
4. we might argue that (1) and the result of (3) are not the same, but without (1) there is no result of (3) and (3) doesn't quite understand how he got to his conclusions (this applies to any human or other sentient beings)

i'm just having fun with deep conversations , i don't treat this serious even i what i write is my own beliefs

sure, its fun but understanding the nature of reality is a part of everyone's life and purpose - the closer one is to this understanding, the more his life makes sense regarding its numerous aspects, materialistic and spiritual (in a way, it doesn't get more serious than that, it is fundamental to one's existence)

[Sazzy]

understanding the nature of reality is a part of everyone's life and purpose - the closer one is to this understanding, the more his life makes sense regarding its numerous aspects, materialistic and spiritual

In that case, I don't understand it at all. Since when does life make sense?

[slikrapid]

In that case, I don't understand it at all.

welcome to the club (of 7 billion or so)

Since when does life make sense?

since it first began (ie. since always)
the fact that it doesn't make sense to a lot of people is something else (subjective views based on a lacking understanding)
and if you ever wondered why the known human history as well as the situation in current societies is (still) so messed up, there's your answer: people are lost and confused (subconsciously searching for a deeper meaning so that their living experience would make more sense than it does right now)