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Thread: The Two Popes (2019)

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    The Two Popes (2019)

    Behind Vatican walls, the conservative Pope Benedict and the liberal future Pope Francis must find common ground to forge a new path for the Catholic Church.
    Code:
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8404614/


    the most interesting thing about this movie is a glimpse inside the Church and their activities, especially the philosophical topics discussed by the two popes of somewhat opposing viewpoints

    was expecting a stronger leftist smear campaign, but they mostly only attacked conservative viewpoints and made the former pope Benedict look bad, at least compared to their new favorite pope Francis

    an example of this is criticizing some position of the Catholic Church, while the movie shows images of heavy weather making preaching duties difficult, as if symbolizing God's dissatisfaction with these conservative positions

    they showed a rather luxurious lifestyle in Vatican, which may be a valid point of criticism, even though no priest personally owns any of these costly items

    the main conflict is between conservatism and reform within the Church, where reform is interpreted by the scriptwriters as allowing more liberties for whatever the sinful world deems desirable - they see an opportunity to steer the Church in this direction by the appearance of an unorthodox new pope Francis

    pope Francis is a Jesuit, in an order known for unorthodox methods of acting or preaching, but also for strong faith, simplicity and devotion to Lord Jesus, which is why they have continuously been attacked by the enemies of Christianity

    seems the movie makers take special pleasure in labeling pope Benedict a nazi due to his activities as a young man, yet they fail to criticize marxism/communism, even though it was a much worse ideology which gave rise to the likes of Stalin and other mass murderers; which is still very much active nowadays, giving rise to the likes of Soros and other manipulators; not to mention that nazism itself was a response to growing marxism/communism in Germany at the time

    seems that pope Benedict is more of a secluded scholar, whereas pope Francis is more of a social person (popular)


    Quote Originally Posted by movie
    our churches (in Europe) are beautiful but empty
    not quite correct, since although the local population in western Europe may be less interested in going to Church due to their intoxication with a consumerist western lifestyle, many of the religious workers from eastern Europe are more disciplined in church attendance in the suburbs
    another point is that large cathedrals are often flooded by a constant stream of tourists from all over the world, most of whom are not in an adversarial mood towards religion in general

    Quote Originally Posted by Plato
    most important qualification for any leader is not wanting to be a leader
    that makes no sense, its like saying most important qualification for any good football player is not wanting to play football or not wanting to play good
    what was meant is probably that a leader should not attempt to grab power by any means available to him, choosing only the right kind of action, thus keeping his honor intact, for he will be judged by God according to his actions

    Quote Originally Posted by movie
    (there is) only one unchanging eternal Truth
    yes, but also innumerable changing views or levels of realization of that Truth (personal level) and several revealed teachings on that Truth (aka world religions)

    Quote Originally Posted by movie
    People are abandoning Catholicism because it is too conservative.
    Catholic Church
    Church membership in 2007 was 1.147 billion people[55] (17% of the global population at the time), increasing from the 1950 figure of 437 million[56] and 654 million in 1970.[57][58]
    On 31 December 2008, membership was 1.166 billion, an increase of 11.54% over the same date in 2000
    Code:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_population_growth#By_branches
    conservatism means stability, tradition and maintaining values, not letting them become watered down or perverted by various influences
    too much conservatism means rigidity and inability to adapt to new circumstances
    one of the reasons why pagans mostly disappeared was not being able to conserve their belief system, in other words, they forgot what they once believed in, their religion degraded with time to a point of no return

    Quote Originally Posted by movie
    There are no coincidences. We are all in God's hands.
    yes, everything (materialistic) has a cause and every action has an effect - therefore no randomness exists, except the appearance of randomness due to one's imperfect senses or understanding
    we are controlled and God is the supreme controller, although He gives us free will to make our own choices as we desire

    can one ever live simply enough?
    if it results in reaching the Kingdom of God, then it was simple enough

    celibacy can be a blessing, but also a curse
    celibacy is recommended for spiritual advancement, but if a person has much trouble maintaining it, it is better he turns to regulated householder life

    giving communion is not a reward for the virtue but food for the starving
    communion is supposed to be blessed food, which cleans one of sinful reactions - it works better if a person is already trying to be virtuous, just like cleaning a less dirty person works better - the aim is to reach optimum conditions of experiencing results of the Holy Mass

    the bigger the sinner, the warmer the welcome
    the bigger the sinner, the more difficult the cleansing - when big sinners were saved, that was to show the potency of saving ie. the potency of pure faith and surrender, not to welcome big sins as something desirable

    mercy is the dynamite that blows down the walls
    mercy gives another chance or helps in insurmountable situations

    we are losing people
    people may call themselves believers, but for the large majority their faith is weak, flickering and impure, which is why it was said: 'if only you had a grain of Faith, you'd be able to move mountains'
    people want quick, easy 5-step answers, not a lifetime of disciplined adherence to a set of rules, even if God Himself recommends them
    people want a life of enjoyment now, not to patiently prepare and wait until the afterlife
    people are generally ignorant and that is their main problem, which is why it was said: 'forgive them for they know not what they do'

    the Church is narcissistic
    that would be the sin of pride, which just like all other sins arises from imperfect understanding of the Truth

    God does not change
    true

    He moves towards us
    if this means: 'we are given easier methods of approaching Him in this age' then it is correct - in a more difficult age (Kali Yuga), people are given easier methods, otherwise they would hardly be able to accomplish the goal of reaching the Kingdom of God - an example would be the different methods used in OT & NT

    the real danger was inside with us...we knew there were priests who preyed on children
    the real danger is inadequate faith - a sufficiently strong Faith does not succumb to the impulse of satisfying one's desires with males, females or children

    we moved them onto another parish where they could start all over again...to initiate the canonical trial
    it is recommended to move them physically and mentally away from temptations, so a good solution would be to move them to a secluded monastery, not just another parish

    confession does not help the victim
    so treat the victim then as well, after which they can move on with their lives

    sin is a wound, not a stain
    these are just symbolical descriptions, sin is simply inappropriate action, which causes (sinful) reactions that bind you like chains to this world, becoming an obstacle in reaching the Kingdom of God - the soul itself is always pure, it cannot be stained nor wounded, however it can be covered (veil of maya)

    football...i've never understood the excitement myself
    the excitement of running after or kicking a ball around the field is a rather childish activity - a properly used God-given ability to play football would be in such a way to promote God's glory

    This country doesn't need another priest.
    actually, it needs better, more devoted priests, priests whose Faith is so strong they can 'move mountains', ie. move people to start taking their spiritual health more seriously

    Now you know our Father is watching.
    God is also described as the eternal witness (see sig, the bird that watches) - your actions, thoughts and desires are never hidden from Him

    at the keyboard i'm not infallible
    afaik, not even Lord Christ claimed infallibility, so why would a pope do such a thing
    later on the popes say 'we are all sinners', so how can sinners be infallible?

    small pleasures are important
    technically, if you still have such pleasures (attachments), you're not ready for the Kingdom of God

    is it permitted to smoke while praying or pray while smoking?
    why would you smoke in the first place, your body does not need smoking to function properly, nor is smoking a part of any prayer, therefore smoking as such is unnecessary

    He doesn't laugh or at least i don't hear Him laughing
    what is there to laugh at? at people wasting their time on spiritually (semi)useless activities like football or playing the piano or watching silly tv shows?
    on the other hand, laughter is given to the living being engaged in earthly activities and God witnesses that laughter

    eating alone is not good for you...besides Jesus was always breaking bread and feeding people
    Jesus was giving them blessed food as a ritual of spiritual significance - just like it is being done at every Holy Mass
    technically, it is better that a person eats only food which has been blessed since this kind of food does not cause sinful reactions

    God forgets but i don't
    it is the other way around
    a person born in this world does not remember his previous lives, similarly this life is forgotten after one's death - however, all your actions are remembered and judged by God in order to give you the results you deserve (aka justice)

    where was Christ in all this (killings done by an argentinian dictatorship)
    Christ, as a pure servant of God is always there where God wants Him to be
    that dictatorship will be punished for their misdeeds, every person according to their own actions
    people killed during the dictatorship, if they were wise, grabbed that opportunity to surrender to God and reach the Kingdom of God
    other victims went for another round of reincarnation, according to how they had lived their life (according to their karma)

    People believe that, for us, it's different...
    That we have...a direct line with God.
    some saints can have such a communication line, especially those on higher spiritual levels or those chosen for a special mission (receiving visions)

    today, I'm not worthy of delivering a sermon.
    My words would be empty.
    so just read something from the Holy Scripture and you're on the safe side (no sinful reactions from speaking the Truth)

    They took away our companions!
    actually, God took away your companions because their time was up

    Where are they (the companions)?
    exactly where they ought to be, it was their own decisions in life that brought them there (free will)

    20% of the world's population consumes resources at the rate that robs the poor nations and future generations of what they need to survive
    on one hand, people would be better off consuming only that what their body needs for proper functioning - such attitude would eliminate senseless consumerism
    on the other hand, it is the greedy elite that are spearheading destruction of the environment, global exploitation and maintaining laws which allow such behavior
    also, voters are not actively punishing politicians and political parties for their negative role in this
    on yet another hand, fear not, for the Lord will provide food when needed

    the economy of exclusion and inequality (showing the mexican-usa border)
    mexican people ought to grow their own food and become more independent of usa, then the wall of exclusion would not be much of a problem and they wouldn't be just a source of cheap labor used to keep the exploitative american promised land illusion afloat
    people live different lives in different conditions while having different abilities, therefore inequality in this sense is natural
    on the other hand, exploitation as the cause of inequality is caused by greed (another sin)

    every community is called to be an instrument of liberation, the liberation and promotion of the poor
    liberation means not being disturbed by conditions of poverty
    a good deal of poverty can be reduced by forcing companies to properly pay their taxes (in money or in goods), instead of giving them tax evasion opportunities as a result of their lobbying efforts

    we are not God, we live in God but we are not of it, we are only human
    'we are not God' - correct
    'we are not of it' - living beings (souls) are considered to be parts of the marginal energy of God, so in this way 'we are of it'
    'we are only human' - we experience life as a human, in a human body, but we are not that body, we are the soul dwelling in that body

    eating junk food
    the movie makers made them forget to ask the Lord to bless their meal

    as a child i failed you first by not having the courage to taste the life itself, instead i hid away in books and done study
    you tasted enough, tasting the materialistic life more only brings more attachment to it (chains mentioned above)
    you don't need to taste drugs in order to understand the problem of addiction
    you don't need to have children to understand the problems of raising them
    etc.
    you only need to surrender and take shelter of the Lord and He will provide whatever you may need

    you forgot to love the people you were meant to protect?
    technically, it is sufficient to love only God because He distributes that love towards all others

    truth without love is unbearable
    proper understanding of Truth and love for God are simultaneous, not separate from each other

    globalization of indifference which makes us think only of ourselves
    empathy, charity and cooperation are commendable, however maintaining sovereignty is necessary as well

    who is responsible for the refugees washed up on our shores
    'on our shores' makes them our problem, which can be viewed as a test by God to see how we handle the problem, according to His wishes or against them

    when no one is to blame, everyone is to blame
    regardless of who is to blame, proper action needs to be taken (improper action leads to sinful reactions)



    the movie is missing an important topic, namely the topic of ecumenism, which has a potential to end inter-religious wars by teaching inter-religious tolerance, which can work on a global scale and among different religions - this is to be understood as in direct opposition to the one world religion desired by the one world government of the globalist elite and the synagogue of satan

    and finally, a recommendation to christian religious leaders: when contemplating whether you should choose reform/change or conservation, it would be beneficial to consider the position of other major religious groups, especially those following Vedic knowledge, whose understanding can clear many questions on what would be the best course of action


    Parable of the Two Birds

    Two birds, beautiful of wings, close companions, cling to one common tree: of the two one eats the sweet fruit of that tree; the other eats not but watches his companion. The self is the bird that sits immersed on the common tree; but because he is not lord he is bewildered and has sorrow. But when he sees that other who is the Lord and the beloved, he knows that all is His greatness and his sorrow passes away from him...

    ...@ en.wikipedia.org Paramatman

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    Blocker (29.12.19) , anon (27.12.19)

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    Quote Originally Posted by slikrapid View Post
    seems the movie makers take special pleasure in labeling pope Benedict a nazi due to his activities as a young man, yet they fail to criticize marxism/communism, even though it was a much worse ideology which gave rise to the likes of Stalin and other mass murderers; which is still very much active nowadays, giving rise to the likes of Soros and other manipulators; not to mention that nazism itself was a response to growing marxism/communism in Germany at the time
    People love to spread that picture of Benny in the Hitler Youth, apparently forgetting that Nazi Germany wasn't a democracy and doing that sort of thing may not have been optional and voluntary in practice.

    The Church was very relaxed in their criticism of the Nazis, but this was due to reasonable fear of reprisals rather than wanting to maintain friendly relations. Within Germany, they had a resistance of sorts that attempted to rescue those who had been targeted for elimination and get them out of the country, saving dozens of thousands of lives.

    Christ, as a pure servant of God is always there where God wants Him to be
    that dictatorship will be punished for their misdeeds, every person according to their own actions
    people killed during the dictatorship, if they were wise, grabbed that opportunity to surrender to God and reach the Kingdom of God
    other victims went for another round of reincarnation, according to how they had lived their life (according to their karma)
    The situation with the 1970s military dictatorship was similar to the one above, except that local church leaders were very open about their support of this regime, since both shared the same conservative values and dislike for modern culture. One of them infamously praised the dictator by stating he was "an envoy of God". This left a pretty dark stain in the Church's history in this country and that's why many resent it to this day.

    However, most if not all of the priesthood was against the de facto government and the atrocities it committed. It was at this time that the very well-known figure of Father Mujica emerged. He built a church in the Villa 31 (the poorest and most dangerous slum in Buenos Aires at the time) and devoted himself to doing charity work there, until he was assassinated by government-allied paramilitaries for allegedly being subversive and pro-Communism. So, you could say that's where Christ was.
    "Come visit sometime, okay? We'll always be here for you. We... we all love you."
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon
    forgetting that Nazi Germany wasn't a democracy and doing that sort of thing may not have been optional and voluntary in practice.
    another thing to remember is that the nazi party came in literally as saviors from a disastrous social & economic situation, which was intentionally enforced and supported by western powers after WWI as a preparation for a communist revolution in germany, following a similar pattern as it was done in pre-bolshevik russia - however, in just a few years time germany completely recovered and became a world power, so it is no wonder that the the german people held hitler and his party in high regard

    The Church was very relaxed in their criticism of the Nazis, but this was due to reasonable fear of reprisals rather than wanting to maintain friendly relations.
    unlike the bloodthirsty communists, hitler (himself a neo-pagan) didn't mind the church as long as they kept out of his way, out of his megalomaniac ideas of world domination

    as usual, the church advocated upholding of values as ordered by God in holy scriptures - unfortunately, the occult masonic leadership of western forces, the occult zionist leadership of communist forces and the occult pagan leadership of german forces had different ideas, setting the stage for WWII, through their immoral actions

    One of them infamously praised the dictator by stating he was "an envoy of God".
    every leader has a duty to uphold values as ordered by God in holy scriptures, ie. he has a chance of becoming worthy to be considered an envoy of God - unfortunately, the majority of world leaders are very sinful, practically godless people, which can explain their immoral actions and the abominable results of their leadership

    So, you could say that's where Christ was.
    well, Christ is with his devotee (devoted follower), regardless whether he finds himself in a difficult or life-threatening situation or not


    Parable of the Two Birds

    Two birds, beautiful of wings, close companions, cling to one common tree: of the two one eats the sweet fruit of that tree; the other eats not but watches his companion. The self is the bird that sits immersed on the common tree; but because he is not lord he is bewildered and has sorrow. But when he sees that other who is the Lord and the beloved, he knows that all is His greatness and his sorrow passes away from him...

    ...@ en.wikipedia.org Paramatman

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