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Thread: NASA Finds Evidence of Flowing Water on Mars

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    NASA Finds Evidence of Flowing Water on Mars



    Some slopes on Mars darken in the summer (left), but return to a lighter color by the following spring.

    Over the last several decades, evidence has piled up that Mars once played host to liquid water on its surface. But in its current geological era, the red planet is too cold and has too little atmosphere to allow liquid to survive for long. Even at the peak of Martian summer, water would evaporate off quickly during the day, or freeze solid as soon as night hit. But that doesn't mean it couldn't exist beneath the surface, where pressures and temperatures might be quite different, so researchers have been looking for signs that some subterranean liquid might bubble to the surface. Now, scientists are reporting some changes on the Martian surface that seem to be best explained by a watery seep.

    The information comes courtesy of the finest resolution camera we've ever put in orbit there, the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. The MRO has been circulating Mars for long enough that it's been able to image certain areas multiple times over a Martian year or more, which has enabled the authors of a new paper to identify seasonal changes on the planet's surface.

    One of the changes that the authors spotted was a "recurring slope lineae," or RSL (their name, not ours). These were regions of steep downward slopes (25 degrees or more) that darkened during the Martian summer and reverted to a lightened color once summer ended. These were mostly concentrated in the southern hemisphere, but tended to be on northward-facing slopes, suggesting they required elevated temperatures to form. They were also associated with channels that are visible year-round, and they appeared to flow around obstacles, rather than simply barreling down-slope. Typically, they appeared at the base of a bedrock outcrop; in a few locations, hundreds of these RSLs were present.

    Overall, the authors have confirmed 7 sites with RSLs, and have a strong indication of another dozen—the latter just haven't been imaged long enough to confirm their annual reappearance. Another 20 sites appear to be worth following up on. Each site hosts anywhere from a dozen to thousands of these features on different areas of the slope, each less than five meters across.

    All of that, to the authors' mind, implies that the features are caused by seeping water. There are a number of other potential sources, such as debris flows or seasonal coverings of dust, but they don't fit the observations nearly so well. Debris flows can easily end up covering obstacles in their path rather than flowing around them, and there's no reason they should be limited to equator-facing slopes. Dust in the Martian atmosphere should cover all features with the same general time course, but dust at other sites doesn't seem to track with the RSLs over the course of a Martian year. And there's no reason for any simple geological processes like these to be limited to so few sites on the surface of the entire planet.

    Liquid water, however, would be expected to be very limited in scope. And the association of the RSLs with exposed bedrock would seem to suggest a source inside the Martian crust.

    There are two potential problems with this explanation identified by the authors. The first is that many of the slopes are expected to have temperatures well below the freezing point of water. This, they contend, isn't really an issue; a salty brine can depress the freezing point of water by as much as 70K, meaning that all of the sites should be expected to have liquid brines during the Martian summer, when the RSLs appear.

    The second issue is much more serious: the MRO also has a spectrometer on board, which should be able to pick up a clear indication of water in the area. It doesn't. The authors suggest that the brine might be flowing below the surface, which would keep it from wetting material that can be imaged by the spectrometer, but that seems like a weak explanation—if it's not at the surface, why is the surface so obviously changing color?

    This isn't the first case where a feature on Mars has been interpreted as indicating the presence of liquid water, but many of the past findings haven't shown the sort of seasonal activity and bias toward the warmer slopes of a feature that the authors have found here. The lack of a clear signal from water is definitely troubling, but the paper can be viewed as inviting the wider community to think a bit about the results, and either come up with a better explanation for these features, or suggest why the spectrometer wouldn't be seeing any water.
    Orbiter spots possible water seepage on surface of Mars
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    SealLion (19.08.11)

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    Technology is so scary, i can't figure out how they do all this and want to look for life on whatever planet :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by hassanen9 View Post
    Technology is so scary, i can't figure out how they do all this and want to look for life on whatever planet :/
    A tonne of reasons can help explain this.

    Firstly, astrobiology involves sciences like chemistry, biology, physics, paleontology, microbiology, biochemistry, mineralogy, and a slew of other sciences far too many too mention here.

    Secondly. The reasons for astrobiology being used to find out how life first came about and all the ranges of environments in which that particular life-form (what-ever form it would be) is an illustration of adaptation and survival for that life-form.

    Since most organism need some kind of water-based system as part of their environment for survival, it's obvious why finding water sources (and the subsequent search for other life forms either in the form of micro-organisms or even humanoid) on an extra-terrestrial environment would seem interesting.

    It would be an interesting action because it provides a guide to the limits of life on other planets. It also enhances the possibility for resource extraction for humanity as time goes on. Additionally, not only does it involve the very true possibility that life can and most likely does exist elsewhere.

    We live in a universe. More than likely, we probably live in one of many universes ( this last one is my opinion) Why should we, as humans be limited to our knowledge and expansion of intelligence of astrobiology and related sciences?? Historically, humanity has illustrated curiosity of things not only within but also outside of it's planet. Hence, the reason for searching of extra-terrestrial 'things'.
    Last edited by SealLion; 19.08.11 at 06:05.
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    slikrapid (19.08.11)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hassanen9
    Technology is so scary
    what is 'scary' is increasing human dependence on technology & technocratic delusions/worship, as if therein lies some 'salvation' or 'progress' that may be obtained only by following the bigger-better-more trend - in such a mindless race it leads towards increased dependence, addiction/obsession/slavery, 'sheep-like' & black-white (pro-contra, 0/1, on/off) mentality, incompetence regarding the simplest of (non-technological) things, misdirection regarding the relevant, loss of a meaningful connection to the environment & the surrounding beings (regardless of their form), advancing spiritual void filled with material substitutes, a further (per default) degradation of future generations


    Quote Originally Posted by SealLion
    Firstly, astrobiology involves sciences like chemistry, biology, physics, paleontology, microbiology, biochemistry, mineralogy, and a slew of other sciences far too many too mention here.
    its like the saying: 'too many cooks spoil the broth', in this case the cooks have insufficient amount of ingredients to even make something that could be called a meal/broth, so instead of cooking they entertain themselves (and others) in imagining what the broth would taste like, using what they know about real food as basis for more or less far fetched assumptions about the imagined one, after which they pretend the imagined one was actually prepared or as good as completed with just a few corrections left to add

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    Astrobiology addresses the question of whether life exists beyond Earth
    firstly, they have no idea what life actually is (they think its some arbitrary selection of organisms) and secondly for scientists to even seriously ask such a question shows painful levels of ignorance or insecurity/complacency

    Quote Originally Posted by SealLion
    The reasons for astrobiology being used to find out how life first came about and all the ranges of environments in which that particular life-form (what-ever form it would be) is an illustration of adaptation and survival for that life-form.
    from loads of data collected on the earth the current 'grand' thinkers have managed to concoct a silly theory involving something like merging rotating space dust & primeval 'slime' as the original form(s) - imagine what they may add in terms of precision/correction with a handful of (mostly long-distance) extraterrestrial data acquired so far...pretty much nothing, which seems even officially confirmed:

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    astrobiology concerns itself primarily with hypotheses that fit firmly into existing scientific theories.

    Quote Originally Posted by SealLion
    Since most organism need some kind of water-based system as part of their environment for survival
    which again applies to earth as it has abundance of water - other planets & environment that have scarcity of water will naturally have such organisms that can adapt to those particular conditions, they simply don't need water for their form of existence: the environment & its inhabitants are in a state of co-existence & interdependence, thus having similar connecting/shared 'elements', on earth this may be water & co., somewhere else it may be something else

    Quote Originally Posted by SealLion
    More than likely, we probably live in one of many universes ( this last one is my opinion)
    ancient scriptures speak of cosmic 'eggs' (universe shaped as an egg, resembling an egg), ours being one such 'egg' emerging from an 'ocean' filled with other 'eggs' (or seeds) - certainly makes more sense than some wild-west (or pr0n) inspired big-bang nonsense

    Quote Originally Posted by SealLion
    Why should we, as humans be limited to our knowledge and expansion of intelligence of astrobiology and related sciences??
    indeed, however on one hand there is already much knowledge & insight available in ancient written material (less known, certainly not supported by the mainstream, treated as fairy-tales), on the other hand the current scientific system/society is deeply stuck in perpetuating its own dogmas & fallacies, opposed to any & every independent or non-mainstream view, basically shooting itself in the leg, for they cannot bear the thought of admitting how much of the so-called modern achievements are actually nothing new or how much of it is simply flimsy theoretical constructions (to fit the pre-arranged framework) or how their own power/reputation & control over the current mainstream knowledge may become severely damaged/lessened if the extent of their manipulation and ignorance becomes widely known/realized
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    SealLion (20.08.11)

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    @ slik: What kind of ancient scriptures are you referring to, slik??
    Secondly, could such ancient scriptures be corroborated with other instruments of information?? The reason for this question is obvious. It's always good/favorable to have some kind of corroborating evidence/information available whether it be current or from some time in the past. For example, during the Noah's flood, from what I recall reading in a book (sorry, can't recall the name of it as it was a long time ago in reading) there were some very old and ancient reports by natives in both North America as well as reports from the Middle East at the time having reported similar large flooding reports.
    "God, from the mount Sinai
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealLion
    @ slik: What kind of ancient scriptures are you referring to, slik??
    religious/mythological ones:

    Code:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_egg
    Quote Originally Posted by SealLion
    could such ancient scriptures be corroborated with other instruments of information?
    that would depend on whats the topic/subject in question, certainly not regarding quantities/qualities/events/... which cannot be measured/observed - on the other hand, different sources of similar/identical information may be considered as corroborating - additionally, scriptures that exercise high level of credibility (as opposed to propagandist or closed-minded ones) may very well stand on their own, without the need to rely on supporting 'evidence' or 'backup'

    Quote Originally Posted by SealLion
    during the Noah's flood, from what I recall reading in a book (sorry, can't recall the name of it as it was a long time ago in reading) there were some very old and ancient reports by natives in both North America as well as reports from the Middle East at the time having reported similar large flooding reports.
    those reports (regarding the flood & related cataclysms) were made much later after the fact, due to the aforementioned disasters having a global impact (hence the global existence of similar/identical records regarding that particular event) that caused massive worldwide destruction to any preexisting civilizations, which imo afterward had to start again virtually from scratch, beginning with tribal gathering, primitive agriculture and later on enlarging/expanding into what we today call the 'first' civilizations
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