Moved from the "How the FBI Investigates Computer Crime" thread

[SealLion]

what I'm kind of surprised with on the FBI is the fact that this police and investigative organization apparantly never had Osama Bin Laden on their top 10 most wanted. Here's an alternative website I like to visit often:

Osama bin Laden’s role in the events of September 11, 2001 is not mentioned on the FBI’s “Ten Most Wanted” poster.
On June 5, 2006, author Ed Haas contacted the Federal Bureau of Investigation headquarters to ask why, while claimingthat bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 1998 bombings of US Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, the poster does not indicate that he is wanted in connection with the events of 9/11.

I realize we need to take some things with a grain of salt but it does spur some interest in some matters.

But have a look at this as well:

....“The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Osama bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.”

Maybe because he isn't the real culprit for the destruction of buildings and the death of thousands of people but the real culprit being the collaboration and collusion by such small elitists groups such as the Bilderberrg group, large global corporations such as companies that represent the pharmaceutical industry (i.e. vaccines) and others. I believe that this is no doubt all part and parcel of a global project for creating global chaos and fear through endemics, pandemics, terror, and what-not.

...Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” ...

It's unlikely that he will be let alone be found. Its more than likely that its designed he wont be found.

One thing I don't understand is that Bush labeled him as the culprit, had an entire country and it's allies go full force against him in Afghanistand and in Pakistan and yet the FBI hasn't yet labelled him as being the culprit being responsible.

Here's the link:'

Project Censored

[Resurrection]

Seallion,what are you saying brother??

Osama has always been on FBI's most wanted list ever since he bombed them...

Even today he's on the list...

FBI — Be part of the solution.

FBI — Ten Most Wanted

Don't trust all these websites...Sometimes they conjure up conspiracy theories to chalk up pagehits..

[SealLion]

Seallion,what are you saying brother??

Osama has always been on FBI's most wanted list ever since he bombed them...

Even today he's on the list...

FBI — Be part of the solution.

FBI — Ten Most Wanted

Don't trust all these websites...Sometimes they conjure up conspiracy theories to chalk up pagehits..

My bad. Your absolutely correct.
I stand corrected, then.

[slikrapid]

Osama has always been on FBI's most wanted list ever since he bombed them...

the article quoted isn't wrong, since they state:

Osama bin Laden’s role in the events of September 11, 2001 is not mentioned on the FBI’s “Ten Most Wanted” poster.

which is not the same as saying he wasn't in the 'top 10' at all, SealLion probably just forgot to add 9/11 to his post, like this:

never had Osama Bin Laden on their top 10 most wanted...

...specifically/explicitly for 9/11

One thing I don't understand is that Bush labeled him as the culprit, had an entire country and it's allies go full force against him in Afghanistand and in Pakistan and yet the FBI hasn't yet labelled him as being the culprit being responsible.

well, political speeches (bush) are known to be exaggerated and not trustworthy, on the other hand, written & signed documents carry a much heavier, more serious liability/responsibility according to the laws, which might indicate that the latter would be either avoided or carefully/generally written or labeled as (top) secret in order to minimize possible repercussions if found erroneous/false, etc.

bin laden was simply used to create a brand-name boogey-man, one that would give terrorism a personalized & localized arch-enemy image, always on the loose, a danger that never ends, until its purpose does, as arranged by the global puppeteers - the 'war on terror' concept had to be devised in such a way that its target is not too clearly visible or pinpoint-able (fi. it couldn't be a country since a single war would be able to eliminate the threat), one that is always at large and impossible to locate/isolate with certainty (al-qaida), one that is supposedly able to ally itself with just about any local militant group in other countries (taliban), which allows for multiple targets, multiple locations, many options for military actions (and subsequent spread of global governance), more public confusion & fear, etc.

just take a look at the whole investigation mess after 9/11, where fbi, cia, and a national commission made extensive reports (yet somehow missing many obvious leads and angles, as noted by independent investigators/activists), partially openly published, concluding something in the line of: that they aren't really sure but have strong indications...that soon enough got buried under numerous other related & unrelated issues, leaving this one (as usual) unresolved, but nevertheless actual/ongoing in consequences

actually, it seems that usa hasn't officially declared a war since 1941, yet that didn't stop them from entering a large number of conflicts at all, on the contrary, it has been a political constant for just about every elected presidential candidate for quite a while now, regardless of their political party - furthermore, there are claims that usa is legally still in a 'state of national emergency' since 1933, which may explain how wars can be led without a declaration and still be legal!

[caballero]

Good discussion in this thread indeed.

The States collude just as equally on the same level plane to give this false impression of constant fear, terror, anxiety, panic, and suspicion that almost every Muslim is a terrorist.
What an insult to Muslims.

Well, the way Muslims see it; they call us terrorists, they blame us for terrorism BUT, the more they do the more people will convert to Islam (that's a fact). Therefore, this war on terrorism is backfiring on the people who 'invented' it. Imo, it's logical thinking so it may not be an insult after all

Regards

[slikrapid]

suspicion that almost every Muslim is a terrorist.
What an insult to Muslims.

that might be viewed as an insult, but only if it gets generalized (applied to all muslims) or if one takes it (highly) personally - both of these are extreme views, thus naturally not applicable for the majority - that's the theory, but in practice these kind of views are quite widespread, due to tendentious/sensationalist opinions being preferred/pushed by the media and due to a tendency of dividing opinions into opposing groups with a lack of (self) criticism ('with us or against us', left/right scenario) and an expectance of conformity within the groups, ie. marginalization of individuality (of opinion)

they blame us for terrorism BUT, the more they do the more people will convert to Islam (that's a fact).

can't agree with this, imo people are converting to islam mostly because of its benefits as a religious establishment (compared to others, mostly applies to males, mostly the result of 'being talked into it'), due to marriage (one partner is adamant about the common religion), less because of actual religious beliefs and even less because of other reasons (like solidarity with victims of usa abuse, out of spite,...) - not counting the most prevalent reason being parental influence (traditional way, but i wouldn't call it a 'conversion')

this war on terrorism is backfiring on the people who 'invented' it.

i'm afraid they were counting on that while devising it, with the aim to steer it into a inter-religious conflict or inter-national one, while the real culprits (individuals & smaller groups) still remain 'untouchable', which can be seen throughout history (of warfare/conflicts)

[Gapo]

The thread's about how the Federal bureau in the US investigates computer crime, not anything else. Suggest this discussion be moved somewhere else or ended.

[anon]

The thread's about how the Federal bureau in the US investigate computer crime, not anything else. Suggest this discussion be moved somewhere else or ended.

Deal. Now give me my paycheck.

I'd hate to move this discussion to a section where posts don't count, so let's make an exception to the rules and put it on the "General News" forum.

[SealLion]

well, yes.
that is correct with respect to the original discussion on the FBI, but you know...discussions do seem to have a tangent to them. Even IRL they do. :)

[Extraterrestrial]

It's unlikely that he will be let alone be found. Its more than likely that its designed he wont be found.

The mastermind of 9/11 attacks wasn't Osama Bin Laden, It's a common mistake.
Osama was part of the Afghan Arab fighters group who were fighting against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan, after the soviet withdraw, he got back to Saudi Arabia. At that time, Sadam Hussein invaded neighboring Kuwait threatening Saudi Arabia, Osama offered the help of himself and his group of Al-Qaeda to defend Saudi Arabia against Iraq but instead of accepting Osama offer, King Fahd accepted the American help to defend Saudi Arabia during the first gulf war. This of course is a heresy in Islam to have infidels on the land of the Arab peninsula. Prophet Mohammad made it clear on his deathbed : get the infidels, jews and christians out of the Arab peninsula, this is like his will so Osama driven by this religious duty and personal humiliation began to organize his Al-Qaeda group, first he went to Sudan and masterminded and his deputy Ayman Al Zawahre many terroristic attacks on Egypt killing about 400 civilians, foreign tourists and failed attempted assassinations on political leaders. After pressure on Sudanese government, they told bin laden to get out of Sudan, he deployed in Afghanistan where the Taliban regime was ruling over the country and provided safe haven for him and his group of Al-Qaeda. From there, he masterminded the US Kenya and Tanzania embassies attacks, later the 9/11 planes operation and many others.
Bin Laden's role was religious & scholarly guidance and that's what the Al-Qaeda always said, in Al-Qaeda "knowledge is for acting upon" propaganda tape, bin laden is talking about meeting with some of the 19 hijackers (the Hamburg cell) but it isn't clear if he was behind the idea of using planes as missiles to crash into buildings, he knew the details of the Manhattan raid but he wasn't the mastermind of the operation, he only gave his blessing to the operation imo, it was clear though that the world trade center was a target of Al-Qaeda since they tried to blow it up in 1993.
1993 World Trade Center bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So who is the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...specifically/explicitly for 9/11

Bin laden is on the FBI most wanted list since the 90s, I don't see the great importance of listing & updating all the accusations of which he is wanted for on a website used for guidance, after all, FBI most wanted list website is only a guide for those who have information about the guys involved, no conspiracy on that, for example, you have this little funny information about bin laden :

SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ARMED AND DANGEROUS

No kidding!

also, they don't mention the Cole bombing of October 2000, does it mean he isn't wanted for bombing it?
FBI — USAMA BIN LADEN

Browse the rest of the FBI most wanted terrorists list, using just one indictment, is the norm. Even Ayman al-Zawahiri, Anas al-Liby or Adam Gadahn are only tied to single indictments.
FBI — Most Wanted Terrorists

[slikrapid]

The mastermind of 9/11 attacks wasn't Osama Bin Laden...So who is the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

nope, the masterminds were hidden global think-tanks & puppeteers, the events were arranged by high-ranked usa & israeli intelligence/governmental officials with subsequent compartmentalization concerning lower clearance personnel, officially/publicly it was blamed on militant islamist group(s) & individuals, its all a part of the pre-fabricated 'war on terror' agenda

Sadam Hussein invaded neighboring Kuwait threatening Saudi Arabia

he invaded after getting 'the green light' from usa, saudi arabia was never in any real danger

This of course is a heresy in Islam to have infidels on the land of the Arab peninsula.

nonsense, since in that case the following wouldn't be possible:

In areas which were previously under Sassanid Persian or Byzantine rule, the Caliphs lowered taxes, provided greater local autonomy, greater religious freedom for Jews, indigenous Christians

Prophet Mohammad made it clear on his deathbed : get the infidels, jews and christians out of the Arab peninsula, this is like his will so Osama driven by this religious duty and personal humiliation began to organize his Al-Qaeda group, first he went to Sudan ...many terroristic attacks on Egypt ...After pressure ...he deployed in Afghanistan...he masterminded the US Kenya and Tanzania embassies

notice however that none of these countries belong to the arabian peninsula, which makes your statement baseless - also, i doubt 'the prophet' would leave such a statement for some of his last words, besides, he lived many centuries earlier:

Origin of INFIDEL
Middle English infidele, from Middle French, from Late Latin infidelis unbelieving, from Latin, unfaithful, from in- + fidelis faithful — more at fidelity
First Known Use: 15th century

it was clear though that the world trade center was a target of Al-Qaeda since they tried to blow it up in 1993.

it was an inside job, just like 9/11
the fictitious al qaida is an an usa sponsored/created intelligence asset, a 'list' of people collaborating on specific assignments in the islamic countries, useful as a way to infiltrate/connect to other militant organizations with similar alignment and/or to create new ones (the same goes for recruiting individuals)

Who Bombed the U.S. World Trade Center? — 1993
Growing Evidence Points to Role of FBI Operative

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SCH404A.html

[Extraterrestrial]

nope, the masterminds were hidden global think-tanks & puppeteers, the events were arranged by high-ranked usa & israeli intelligence/governmental officials with subsequent compartmentalization concerning lower clearance personnel, officially/publicly it was blamed on militant islamist group(s) & individuals, its all a part of the pre-fabricated 'war on terror' agenda

nonsense, this is a fictitious narrative to the reality of the attacks, militant islamist groups were never a traitor to their religion.

he invaded after getting 'the green light' from usa, saudi arabia was never in any real danger

lol, funny, after invading Iraq, Saudi Arabia allied with the US to liberate Kuwait, in fact almost all American soldiers were getting deployed from Saudi Arabia to Kuwait.
All sadam speeches in this period were portraying Saudi Arabia as the Kingdom of evil, the US fearing that sadam might invade Saudi Arabia and control all the Oil coming from it offered help to King Fahd and from Saudi Arabia and other gulf countries they launched operation Desert Storm and in response Iraq launched many Scud missiles on Riyad SA capital and tried to invade Saudi cities including Al khafgi and many others.

nonsense, since in that case the following wouldn't be possible:
notice however that none of these countries belong to the arabian peninsula, which makes your statement baseless - also, i doubt 'the prophet' would leave such a statement for some of his last words, besides, he lived many centuries earlier:

Sorry but I'm afraid you're ignorant on many points:
1- I was talking about the Arabian peninsula not about islamic rule over Persia or Byzantine , this belongs to a completely different discussion.
2- your doubt has nothing to do with the facts :
( أخرجوا المشركين من جزيرة العرب ) or ( لأخرجنَّ اليهود والنصارى من جزيرة العرب حتى لا أدع إلا مسلماً ) AKA get the infidels out of the Arabian peninsula is a well known hadith to all muslims and Arabs around the world, here is an arabic islamic website belongs to the most famous Saudi clerk where you can read more about the shariaa law regarding having Jews, christians and infidels in arabic peninsula ( use google translate):

http://islamqa.com/ar/ref/104806

3- After fleeing from SA, the only Arab country that could shelter bin laden was Sudan ( the only Arab country governed by Sharia law) and storming neighboring Egypt was Al Zawahre idea ( he was the head of al-jihad organization in Egypt merging later with al-Qaeda ), reading some history won't affect you.
Afghanistan was the only safe haven for him after being expelled from Sudan , attacks in US embassies in Africa because they Americans targets to Al-Qaeda every where.

4-Al-Qaeda from 2001 to 2003 attacked SA three times, specially in the american Headquarters in Khubar killing and injuring hundreds of American soldiers ( surprise surprise! you weren't aware of that lol).

it was an inside job, just like 9/11
the fictitious al qaida is an an usa sponsored/created intelligence asset, a 'list' of people collaborating on specific assignments in the islamic countries, useful as a way to infiltrate/connect to other militant organizations with similar alignment and/or to create new ones (the same goes for recruiting individuals)

You may call inside job all day and night but it won't be just because you said so with your conspiracy bullsh**, also we should have a respectable discussion using words not links because the last time we used links we gave each other a negative rep.

---------- Post added at 03:29 ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 ----------

Origin of INFIDEL
Middle English infidele, from Middle French, from Late Latin infidelis unbelieving, from Latin, unfaithful, from in- + fidelis faithful — more at fidelity
First Known Use: 15th century

The arabic word of infidel is Kaffer (كافر) so your online English dictionary doesn't apply here, the word "kaffer" "kuffar "plural" is used heavily in Quran verses, and from it you have the word "takfir" which means calling someone a "kaffer".

[caballero]

The discussion in this thread is moving from debating who was responsible for 9/11 to attacking a religion and saying it orders followers to kill/attack non-Muslims.

The last time I checked the map (a long time tbh.), Ground zero was in North America and not in the Arabian peninsula. In addition, Pakistan and its neighbours were not in the Arabian peninsula. Did things change now? Am I missing somthing, did geography change after I left school? :wondering:

[Extraterrestrial]

Afaik, this thread was about bin laden.

[slikrapid]

@Extraterrestrial:

after invading Iraq, Saudi Arabia allied with the US to liberate Kuwait, in fact almost all American soldiers were getting deployed from Saudi Arabia to Kuwait.

actually, they were already allies for at least a few decades, so the deployment was obviously possible as close as in this kuwait-neighboring country

they launched operation Desert Storm and in response Iraq launched many Scud missiles on Riyad SA capital and tried to invade Saudi cities including Al khafgi and many others.

the key word here is response
as for the 'many cities', are you counting villages as well?

1.

I was talking about the Arabian peninsula not about islamic rule

so what are you saying, that mohammad's successors weren't representing islamic rule, or that they disobeyed him? notice that a significant part of the peninsula was indeed populated (and/or ruled) by non-arabic (and/or pre-islamic) people, during & after his life

2.

use google translate

not a good suggestion, especially when trying to find out the meaning of a sentence/text

3.

the only Arab country that could shelter bin laden was Sudan ( the only Arab country governed by Sharia law)

wrong again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_with_Sharia_rule.png

@4. just because an attack occurred and got attributed to some organization doesn't mean that they actually did it (even with a confession/claim), its called a 'false flag' attack

a respectable discussion using words not links because the last time we used links we gave each other a negative rep.

there are respectable or near-respectable links as well
you started with the negative rep, don't expect me to simply ignore it

The arabic word of infidel is Kaffer (كافر) so your online English dictionary doesn't apply here, the word "kaffer" "kuffar "plural" is used heavily in Quran verses, and from it you have the word "takfir" which means calling someone a "kaffer".

if you want to be exact, then takfir & kaffer apply only to muslims who in some way knowingly abandon islam or its core beliefs (it also seems that this kind of label is not given lightly, in legal sense, needing significant evidence to justify it), the correct translation being: unbeliever ('one who hides the truth') - the connection of this term with other religions is a recent development (distortion), certainly much later than mohammad's time


@caballero:

to attacking a religion and saying it orders followers to kill/attack non-Muslims.

(all) religions have a certain amount of extremist elements/viewpoints/events in their writings, that collide with the overall moderate tone of the majority of written material, these may be interpreted in a more literal/obligating way (fundamentalist tendency) or in a more moderate/modernized way (taking into consideration non-religious societal developments)

who was responsible for 9/11

here is a short science-oriented brochure focused on some of the holes/inconsistencies in the official 9/11 interpretation:

http://www2.ae911truth.org/downloads/graphics/AEstreet_3-beam.pdf