Source: BBCThe Israeli navy has stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip, with reports of at least two people killed.
Armed forces boarded the vessels overnight, clashing with some of the 600 protesters on board.
The exact location of the interception is unclear. Israel had warned the ships not to enter its territorial waters.
From other sites: Telegraph
firstly, entering territorial waters of foreign countries without getting a permission is asking for trouble
secondly, traveling by night reduces the possibility to record an attack and publicly expose military attacks on humanitarian convoys
thirdly, where is the usa now (not to mention a few past decades concerning the palestinian suffering) with its usual speeches on democracy and human rights?
The UN should make an embargo on the israelis.
How shameful, no statement from the usa yet.
Last edited by tokiodrift1; 31.05.10 at 18:12.
I can't claim they weren't going to enter territorial waters, however, right now the law is on their side because according to the bbc:Originally Posted by slikrapid
It happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters.
True saying, however, in this situation; it won't make a difference, these people will attack any time any where and any one. What you've said is one of the excuses they will provide if further investigation is carried.
Usual speeches on democracy and human rights and speeches of defending any one who threatens Israel whatever the cost is (although the speeches weren't as direct as this)
In the end, what is America and what is Israel, an equal sign connects them, and if you know mathematics; there's an equal sign with three dashes which 3 dashes (an identity, it never changes whatever happens)
but we all know it doesn't really matter what they decide (to say or do), considering how such incidents were dealt with in the past, one can expect a continuation of the trends, ie. israeli aggressiveness (resulting in occasional casualties and continuous suffering) being left unpunished or swept under the carpet
you mean, its going to be convenient for them because the attacked side won't be able to produce hard evidence (like footage or video) of what was going on there
on the other hand, this perceived identicalness could burst like a bubble if the public opinion changes direction, now whether it is reasonable to believe in the possibility of such a change is another matter altogetheran equal sign connects them, and if you know mathematics; there's an equal sign with three dashes which 3 dashes (an identity, it never changes whatever happens
Having a terrorist government of Hamas ruling Gaza strip and warning those people from entering occupied area . If they insist on entering and supporting Hamas government they should be worried if they are smuggling weapons into Gaza.
They checked the loading....they should be worried if they are smuggling weapons into Gaza.
There was only material for rebuilding houses and medicine/food.
Also two german delegates were catched by them.
Source: Several News-Channels.
Last edited by tokiodrift1; 31.05.10 at 20:02.
And Israel offered them transferring the cargo themselves without the need for supporting Hamas terrorist government but they refused and defy Israel wishes so they should be concerned as long as they didn't check themselves and a government of Hamas is ruling Gaza.They checked the loading.
There was only material for rebuilding houses and medicine/food.
Also two german delegates were catched by them.
Source: Several News-Channels.
BTW , DON'T BELIEVE THE NEWS
Generally I am checking several sources for building my opinion regarding any topic.
But just to clarify, so you say that what happened (the ship attack) was okay ?
If you say so, could you give some reasons why it is okay from your point of view?
Last edited by tokiodrift1; 31.05.10 at 20:22.
It is OK to prevent anyone from transferring any material to an occupied area without a permission. You're entering a war zone not your house background, If you didn't get permission then you're not allowed to go there and transfer anything especially if this area is ruled by a government involved in killing hundreds of civilians by suicide attacks. They attacked the ship to take over it and search what is being transferred but people on it stabbed soldiers trying to take over the ship with knives so they opened fire to protect themselves .Generally I am checking several sources for building my opinion regarding any topic.
But just to clarify, so you say that what happened (the ship attack) was okay ?
If you say so, could you give some reasons why it is okay from your point of view?
The result is :
17 people dead and a lot injured .
10 soldiers injured .
Wouldn't be easier if they had delivered the cargo by Israel government or they want basically to provide political support to a Hamas?
What if it was actually in neutral territory? In a few german news channels they stated yesterday, that the position where it happened is yet not clear.
Its like shooting a stranger in your yard, he may would have robbed you. But than you realize its just a postman oO.
edit: well after seeing the nightvision video of the israeli army, I'm getting a sligthly different view on that. It maybee was a badly prepared operation and I would question the capability of these so called elite soldiers (could have used teargas in advance, could have sticked together or entered on one side only, etc). But if these people use sticks to beat up those soldiers... isn't that a kind of suicidal tendency? And it really looked like the convoy people started it.
---------- Post added 02.06.10 at 10:08 ---------- Previous post was 01.06.10 at 10:11 ----------
have you seen the chanting video, made on the vessel on May 29th?
LiveLeak.com - Redefining the Media
These are peace activists? wtf? "Either Martyrdom or Gaza".Gaza flotilla participants chanted Islamic battle cry invoking killing of Jews.
The name Khaibar mentioned in battle cry was the last Jewish village defeated by Muhammad's army in 628. The battle marked the end of Jewish presence in Arabia.
There are Muslims who see that as a precursor for future wars against Jews. At gatherings and rallies of extremists, this chant is often heard as a threat to Jews to expect to be defeated and killed again by Muslims.
Last edited by pekamp; 01.06.10 at 22:16.
Either ways, this is arabs' territory not jews'. The jews have nothing to do there
Like Israel would give a 'damn' whether it's arab or Israel territory. What is important to Israel is it's security and believe me when i say that Israel would launch another war on Hamas and Hezb Allah in Lebanon very soon.Either ways, this is arabs' territory not jews'. The jews have nothing to do there
Like you said , the convoy people started it and it was self-defense. A lot of extremists were especially on this ship and attacked soldiers trying to take over it. No one get injured other than those who were in the Turkish ship.edit: well after seeing the nightvision video of the israeli army, I'm getting a sligthly different view on that. It maybee was a badly prepared operation and I would question the capability of these so called elite soldiers (could have used teargas in advance, could have sticked together or entered on one side only, etc). But if these people use sticks to beat up those soldiers... isn't that a kind of suicidal tendency? And it really looked like the convoy people started it.
Life Lesson : Don't mess with soldiers equipped with guns.
40 is (errors included) still a lot more than 12 (defined by UN), so it should be pretty safe to assume the information about it happening in international waters to be correct
on the other hand, regardless of the location, it is highly unusual to board a ship with armed soldiers from a helicopter - in a normal situation the israeli delegation/crew should have used proper boarding procedures by arranging for a meeting/inspection and then using a ship or a helicopter (and landing with it on the aid ship, not performing some stunts) to arrive & meet the aid ship, as civilized people - instead they chose to invade with a swat team during nighttime as if they were attacking a target using military tactics
you might wanna rethink that, looks like the nightvision video is a fake:
1. There is no genuine violence shown in the video
2. It’s not even the right ship.
3. Fake wave motion.
4. Fake infraredi'll add that the israeli swat action looks pretty lame for a highly admired level of military performance they are supposed to have...also, they carried paint-guns? what kind of a ridiculous decision is that?Code:http://solstudio.web.id/blog/2010/06/idf-video-footage-of-flotilla-attack-is-fake/
in addition, what happened to footage from the press people on board the aid ship...let me guess, there is none available, probably for 2 reasons: they didn't know about the boarding attempt until it already happened (same goes for other passengers of the aid ship) and anything they recorded after/during the attack has been seized by israeli attackers (confiscated)
so it is quite possible that we have the following scenario here:
1. aid ship traveling? during the night, unaware of enclosing israeli forces nearby
2. israeli intrusion via helicopter & armed swat team(s) without a previous warning about this action
3. weak attempt to fight the intruders (if there was any resistance at all), intruders shoot & kill
4. israeli forces take control
5. they fake the nightvision videos, plant evidence and fabricate their story to look better in public eyes
exactly, which is why it doesn't make sense
1. are these real or fabricated videos?
2. are these people on board the aid ship or somewhere else?
3. are these people the aid ship passengers or someone else?
4. freedom of speech
well, to be fair, the land belongs to both (and some others), palestinians and other arabs were a majority there in the past, owning a large majority of the land too, but as years passed by the israeli (or more correctly zionists) used all kinds of methods (from buying to confiscating and expelling) to change this ownership situation, especially after the israeli state was established...during decades of such practice the arabs have mostly moved into surrounding countries and the palestinians, in addition to moving out into surrounding countries (living there similar to homeless people) were ghettoized into the gaza strip & west bank (living there in utter poverty) by the israeli forces
these 2 ghetto areas are under constant surveillance by the israelis and the land grab is continued (using new israeli settlements to take new territory and destroying neighboring palestinian houses with (army) bulldozers, forcing them to move away once again and so on), meaning its the israeli army that has complete unhindered control over these territories
from time to time the israeli military attacks the palestinians, usually using some excuse like hamas attacks - the suspicious thing about it is:
- palestinians have no real army, no real hiding places or logistics routes (the land is intersected with israeli controlled modern roads unavailable to palestinian vehicles for transit, dividing the land into many sections), 0 tanks, 0 heavy artillery, 0 airplanes and yet the israelis never seem to complete their military actions (they get satisfied with a few hundreds of dead palestinians, usually civilians from bombings/shelling/illegal weapons before they retreat...and this gets repeated over and over again)
- all these israeli attacks happen exactly at the time during or close to their national holidays
- these attacks always do palestinians more harm and advance israeli plans or international position
- there are concerns that palestinian government members are financed by the israelis (considering their lifestyle & property) and that palestinian militant organizations have been heavily infiltrated (or even controlled & financed) by the israeli intelligence personnel
- there are many cases of deliberate killings/shootings/harassment of palestinians which then get covered up or excuses get fabricated by the israeli (reasons like the lone kid waved a hand-gun-like lighter so an armed israeli guard with full body armor shielded by his check-point had to kill the kid with a sniper from the check-point tower) and so on
all of this shows how the israeli side has no intention to be a fair player in this conflict, that it constantly uses & abuses the local palestinian people, fabricates convenient stories as needed and ultimately that they aren't to be trusted - the evidence against them is quite obvious and towering, building up heavily over time, yet, the world has chosen to turn a blind eye to palestinian suffering and israeli hypocrisy for a very long time, allowing for decades of suffering & abuse, virtually spitting on every international human rights declaration and democratic principles they supposedly uphold - this is the real image of country governments worldwide, a sobering cognition to honest citizens who almost cannot believe their eyes at how distorted/hypocritical the world principles in practice/reality actually are
Different videos to conspiracy theorists:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhgt7KY1iQs[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM]YouTube - Weapons Found on the Flotilla Ship Mavi Marmara Used by Activists Against IDF Soldiers[/ame]
---------- Post added at 15:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFSEFml31vc]YouTube - Israeli commandos 'attacked on aid ship'[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLrX7fznVgI]YouTube - IDF video of Gaza Freedom Flotilla attack[/ame]
[ame=http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=112_1275354389]LiveLeak.com - Redefining the Media[/ame]
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