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Thread: Cheating Etiquette (?)

  1. #1

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    Cheating Etiquette (?)

    Does it exist? To what degree? If it does, what should new users know about cheating etiquette?

    Having cheated in the past I think the entire SB-I community has greatly increased my knowledge of networking and how the bittorrent protocol works (and doesn't work). At SB-I these are networking issues that are brought forward to a relatively novice community that normally wouldn't even be discussed outside of a hardcore-tech forum. Which I think is great, this information needs to be available to anyone who seeks it and not just the technologically-elite. But while my own aquired knowledge oftentimes proves invaluable for troubleshooting networking issues it also makes me specifically aware of other people who are cheating.

    For the most part these users actions are completely benign and innocent. Cheating reasonably has it's reasons, which I fully acknowledge. But there are rare occasions that I find someone who seems to be beyond help. Where one has gone so far that they show complete disregard or just plain ignorance of the tools they're weilding. So I ask you all, are there faux pas when it comes to cheating? What would you regard as foolhardy behavior when cheating? What about the inviter/invitee relationship? Should a trackers general health ever be considered? What are some common mistakes for new users?

    Horror stories and general tips are welcome...
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  3. #2
    Moderator anon's Avatar
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    But there are rare occasions that I find someone who seems to be beyond help. Where one has gone so far that they show complete disregard or just plain ignorance of the tools they're weilding.
    I think I know what you're talking about. For example, the RatioMaster was designed to help people with a slow connection to survive - and some of them got greedy and started cheating and leeching as much as you can.

    So I ask you all, are there faux pas when it comes to cheating? What would you regard as foolhardy behavior when cheating?
    Yes, there are - users grabbing a ratio cheating tool and instantly going to "bash" their favorite tracker with it, disregarding the existence of scripts, or the fact that faking 1 terabyte in 1 minute is easy to notice. This also makes trackers improve their scripts to catch more cheaters. And sites such as seba, providing stolen mods with no support, further encourage such behavior.

    What about the inviter/invitee relationship?
    When it's your account that you're screwing that's fine and I'd just call it plain stupidity - but what if you have been invited by a friend and he's warned, loses his inviting privileges, or even gets disabled because of your behavior? That's a completely different (and much worse) thing. Some sites, such as BCG, go to the extent of banning the whole invite tree sometimes. This means I, as well as all the other people I have invited, will lose their account because of such a stupid person.

    I'd personally never invite such a person again to any other site, at least not until they realize what they did and become much more experienced - because of their total lack of consideration for the account of someone that freely gave them the opportunity to become and stay being a part of the site (I don't trade, so when I invite someone it's either because he's my friend, or I'm doing a giveaway).

    Should a trackers general health ever be considered?
    When I started I didn't care about my (few) trackers' health. They were all places where to leech my stuff from, as well as cheating if the number after "Ratio:" was close to being smaller than 1. But after time passes, you kind of realize that stopping a torrent with 2000 seeders and 100 leechers right after the download finishes is "fine", but doing the same thing on one with 10 seeders and 1 leecher isn't. Just because you can cheat to avoid having to stay seeding and uploading, it doesn't mean you should. I even considered making ScT my main download tracker recently - you may have heard this from me numerous times, but they really shouldn't care about me and my 3Mbit line cheating, when their seedbox-infested swarms can upload at more than 450 times the same speed I can download. With the seedbox users shoving screenshots of how awesome their 100+MB/s speeds are in others' faces while I don't even have one (and probably never will for the time being), I don't feel like I owe that site anything when taking and not giving back.

    What are some common mistakes for new users?
    • not using Search before cheating, and doing things like using Multi uTorrent mods at Waffles. Even if you don't care about your account and can get another invite easily, someone contributing to the site could have used your newly-disabled account's spot. Also, it's a bit stupid to lose an account just because you didn't take five minutes to search this board and check what works and what doesn't.
    • trying to sign up at every new tracker just because its name sounds cool, for example. I used to do this when I was new, and quickly ended up with a big list of usernames and passwords. After letting the accounts I didn't use other than for logging in once every 29 days, I'd only have a few left. (This doesn't mean new sites will never get anywhere - all trackers started small -, or that you shouldn't have signed up at TL/RevTT/BCG or even BitMeTV just because they opened, though.) And here comes a subset of this:
    • collecting accounts. Yes, we're all a bit of collectors. No one needs "just" TL. But what are you going to do with 80 sites other than logging in to keep most of them alive? There's probably another person that actually wants to really use the site.
    • assuming that a higher "level" means better content/speeds/etc., and that you HAVE to get inside that tracker. Same goes for cheating difficulty. Levels only indicate how hard it is to get inside a tracker, and nothing else. A higher level DOES NOT mean the site is good, or that it's hard to cheat there. In my opinion, TL (level 3) and TvT (level 2) are better than ScT (level 6) and BitMeTV (level 4) as 0-Day and TV trackers, for example.
    • assuming that because something worked on one tracker it'll work on all of them. This is by far only true for the Extreme Mod, and you still need to pick the right torrent and use the right speeds. Just because flashing 50GB in 10 seconds with the PMR worked at RevTT it doesn't mean it will at ScT, and thus we go back to the first point on this list.


    There may be more to it. This is what I can come up with right now.
    "I just remembered something that happened a long time ago."
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  5. #3

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    Anon , this post should be sticky , especially the part where you talk about hit'n'run.
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  6. #4
    Moderator anon's Avatar
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    Yes, perhaps I'll sticky it once other users share their thoughts... it could help those that think things are black and white.
    "I just remembered something that happened a long time ago."
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    Mihai (12.09.09)

  8. #5
    Exactly one year ago I found this forum and started to use it's fine tools. Back then it was only for "surviving" no more no less. Was stunned that such a community even existed... Iplay was my main reason, on all the trackers I could make a 1:1 ratio (only 4 trackers I had at that time) but on iplay even a torrent seeded for a week could not get a ratio of 1. The acc was also about to be disabled within 24 hours if the ratio was not at least 0.5 . So I started to cheat using rmaster without any guide whatsoever and it worked for about ~7 months the I got disabled and that's the story of who I started. From 4 trackers, namely: filezone (sfz now), scenelinks (at that time, gone now), xtremezone and demonoid, I have now more that would suffice any user. I was also a lot happier back then about the speed, members etc that I don't feel anynore. The most important thing is that to get "stable" with some trackers there must be a period of "trial and error". You MUST loose an acc to know the risks about it and to make it last for as long as possible. I know sites like BCG and I must say that if I were to give blackcats to someone and he gets banned for cheating I would "close my eyes" even if i do get disabled as well and the others. I'm patient with everyone that can't make a stable ratio, doesn't matter the consequences.
    As I said, when I first started I had an upload speed of 30k no more and no less. The it was raised to 60k and the 200k, then 3 mb/s, then 9 mb/s and now 1.5mb/s... The main ideea is if you relied on these tools in the past, and know how to use 'em then whenever a situation where you can't upload rises the users relies on cheating even if it is critical or not. Still, 9 megas did not help me on bitme whatsoever, the upload was still at 90k/s so it trully depends on the tracker.
    Sorry for the long message. I'm hoping someone will read this and share some more stories. It's a real honor to know all of you guys and this fine comunity. May the site run 'till the end of time.
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  10. #6
    Advanced User Mihai's Avatar
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    I think one of the things i realised since i started cheating and colecting trackers is that i don't need so many.If you have what.cd for instance, waffles or other music trackers are useless, for me at least.
    Other things that makes us colectors want a tracker is the fact that it has a very low number of users.Well let me tell you something.Downloading a torrent with only 1 seeder is not magic, it's shit.If that guy for example can't stay to seed today you have to wait until tomorow to finish downloading.That is if you get max speeds with him and even finish the torrent in 1-2 days.
    Then there are ratio less trackers.Yes good trackers but bad because you have to keep on seeding the torrents fora lot of hours in a limited time.Like on PTN for example.I got a warning because i didn't seed a torrent for a number of hours in 7 days.And the fact that anoyed me is that i seeded it everyday.As long as my pc was on i seeded.But i didn't get the number of hours so i got a warning.Now i just cheat at those torrents to be sure i don't get another one.Shit, i know.
    Another thing i know traders and people say is the fact that a tracker like tl is not good because everybody has it.They prefer trackers like gft where you hardly find any leechers to seed to and old torrents are almost 100% dead.It's not smart to reject a tracker like tl where you get max speeds just to use a tracker like gft just because few people have it.

    And i think there are more things bt i can't remember now.Hope i helped.


    Looks like i just said about traders and colectors and not cheaters.Ups.
    Something about how i started:
    I wnated a little program to increase my ratio on filelist so i started looking for them.(google)
    Found about RM on thier forum then i found sbi and started learning.I remember the days when i was asking anon questions everyday on any tool.I was banned a couple of times on a lot of trackers.Some for excesive cheating, some because of stupidity( most of them).
    I think i used every tool until i found some tools that i like and are good.

    I lost the first acount on waffles i got.The invite was from czulo.I was banned when i was testing some cheating methods trying to find the waffles method.I just forgot to stop the client and the next day ban.I was so scared czulo might be banned that i pm-ed him 2-3 times to ask what happen to him.Now i learned a lot and i think i know how to cheat on any tracker but i don't need every tracker now.Just a few good ones.The rest i give them to users who are searching for them and will actually use them.
    Last edited by Mihai; 12.09.09 at 21:21.
    What does a scene tracker tell to a general tracker?
    You're so 5 minutes ago...



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  12. #7

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    My personal file-sharing ethics

    I started out cheating to save my accounts. My upspeed was horrible and still is. I soon realized it was fun and tried to see how much of a buffer I could get without getting caught. I now get my cheating thrills mostly from working on methods to be undetectable. At a minimum, I usually make sure that there is no chance that it can be proven that I was cheating. Sometimes I still cheat recklessly for fun too(usually on elite trackers full of seedboxes), but not often compared to how I used to.

    I still like to have fun with it and sometimes pump up my ratio for fun, but I refuse to put my inviter in jeopardy out of respect. That person was kind enough to share and I repay that kindness by being a good torrenting citizen. I reserve fun and games for my accounts that I recieved on open signup.

    At one point I was a collector and let many accounts die because I didn't have the time to use them. I used to sign up at every new one that opened. These days I stick mostly to what I have until I feel I need something more. I make exceptions for rare windows of opportunity that appear. I'm still a sucker for the occasional easy, fun target or if a new tracker opens that I think has alot of potential as well as the types of files I like. Others that want to spend the time and effort can have the member slot that I won't use.

    I think that if someone is good enough to spend time and resources sharing their uploads with me, I will do my best to try and help spread those files to my peers. Most times I still add a little extra to stay above water ratiowise, but I still try to seed what I can. If I am left as the only seeder or one of the few a torrent that I enjoy having, I usually keep it seeding until at least another copy gets out there. If the new person doesn't seed, too bad, I have other places to go and other files to leech with my limited bandwidth. Mainly, I do what I feels good and sharing feels good most of the time.

    I'm no angel, but I do what I can for the community and what feels good. Sharing(and cheating) feels good.
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  14. #8

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    Interesting resposnes so far.


    In my opinion, here are a few things that I would recommend to new users:

    You've gotta walk before you can run.
    If your new to torrenting, don't start by cheating. Your going to understand the system better and your tools better if you start an account somewhere and legitimately work on your account. If your really ambitious try to find a place that's not super-easy to keep a ratio and fight your way to power-user. Upload your own stuff. Immerse yourself in it. It's innumerously harder to help you here at SB-I if you don't know the basics.

    Cheating with a sense of wanting instant gratification is the wrong reason to be cheating.
    Cheating doesn't veto the time commitment. Torrent sites, whether your cheating or not, require work to maintain. If your not willing to take the time, you shouldn't be there.

    Tracker health. Learn about it.
    The tracker wouldn't exist without healthy peers. I've talked to some who buffer their accounts so they can constantly hit-and-run and "fly beneath the radar". As Anon noted, on seedbox infested trackers and torrents with a high seeder:peer ratio that's perfectly fine. On smaller trackers or less popular torrents (where your less likely to get caught anyway) this simply doesn't add up--plus your contributing to the slow demise of that tracker/torrent as it become less available.

    Ratio is not the bar from which you should determine your success at a tracker.
    The "best" ratio from a trackers standpoint is 1.0. If this seems counterintuitive to you, you may not have a good handle on the mechanics of torrenting. Resist the urge to cheat quickly and in large volumes. A number does not define what you are or what you are not. Ratio watch is not a dirty word.

    Always consider the person who invited you.
    You wouldn't be on the trackers you are without the kindness of these folks. Getting them banned or warned only scares away the type of people who would give you invites in the future. Consider the trackers rules and the repercussions to your inviter before you go hog wild or try something potentially risky.

    Have respect for the system.
    All of the tips boil down to this: don't bite the hand that feeds you. There are always exceptions but for the majority of users cheating should be a supplement to your torrenting experience, not a source of it.

    I realize how preachy this all sounds. And I also realize that many people tend to gravitate towards cheating to escape rulesets. That's why I began. But the longer I'm a part of torrenting communities, the more their fragility becomes appharent. And as awesome as digital anarchy sounds, in practice it'll sink the ship we're all floating happily upon.
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  16. #9

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    To cheat or not to cheat?

    I'm part of crew which translate subtitle for the main american tv series, from English to Italian. We often release our subs less than 12 hours after the airing of a show, so my main need is to have an episode as soon as possibile. This is not only a matter of speed, but also a matter of "reactiveness" Public trackers publish the episodes even after 8 / 10 / 12 hours, and this is way too late for me.
    On the contrary, if I'm looking for something else (music, games, apps and so on) I always search on publics, moving on privates only if download speed is too low.
    In both cases, I leave my torrents uploading, giving 'em all the bandwith I have, for as much as I can
    Just my zwei cents.
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  18. #10

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    Very interesting topic we have here, now let me share a bit of my experience.

    Before I even got introduced to the Bit-Torrent community,my desires as a leecher was very limited due to several reasons including slow connection & unawareness of multi file sharing sources. Still, whenever I was seeking a certain type of file, Google's generousity didn't stop on a some edged rocks, it went beyond my expectations to more powerful sources including private trackers, by then, I knew there was a more secured,private & better contents offered places which known today as private trackers.More over, when I was using any of those private trackers, I was always facing the ratio stablizing problem even if I left the client seeding back, till the day came when a friend of mine handed me over the first Azureus shu hack as a powerful tool to pump up my weak ratios. Back then at that moment, I realized that whenever I would seek bigger amounts, I would always get them.

    Now,to get back to the very core of this interesting topic, if we look lately to any behavior of our beloved users (mostly Bit-Torrent users), we would find out that 90% of them just aim at scoring bigger numbers even if they're satisfied with what they got in hand, they just do it to fullfill their inner needs not their real wants.And to be quite honest, personally I don't like taking advantage with something that could be wisely used to maintain good stats when only needed not all the time. If you look at it that way, we wouldn't have other lame parties busting out balls all the time by setting traps just to hunt some of us for the sake of preventing cheats all over other trackers.

    Eventually, this will rise higher as long as such tools are being utilized in situations where users aren't fully aware of the main purpose those are made for.
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  20. #11

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    You can use the thanks button mate

    Welcome to the forums. If you are looking for cheating help on a specific tracker, use the search button. If you are using the Vuze Mod (which I highly recommend) read this thread by anon: http://www.sb-innovation.de/showthre...threadid=13781

    You can also check this out: http://www.sb-innovation.de/showthre...threadid=10786
    It has cheating tips on many trackers, useful if you want to know general feeling of what works and what will get you banned.

    I also highly recommend reading the Ranklist: http://www.sb-innovation.de/showthread.php?threadid=294
    Shows tracker cheating levels. Higher level means harder to cheat. For example, on places like TVTorrents.ro (Level 1) you can go over 1 mB/s and almost every tool/mod will probably work there. But on What.CD (Level 7) you have to be extremely careful because you can easily get banned, and few tools/mods will work, some of them being RM with memory reader and Vuze Extreme Mod. You have to use under 100 kB/s at least if you hope to cheat there.
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  22. #12
    Moderator anon's Avatar
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    "I just remembered something that happened a long time ago."
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  23. #13

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    The only problem I could find with cheating is, unless you are actually cheating to survive, you're just abusing the p2p system.

    People who cheat just for the ratio, I personally dislike to a fair degree. I've made every effort to seed back, but sometimes it isnt enough like on What.CD. I've even uploaded about 60 torrents, but I've only managed to survive by not downloading alot. While I could probably continue like this, I'd run out of CDS from family and friends eventually. And on smaller trackers were seeding is actually possible 24/7, I leave my computer in 24/7 usually for weeks.

    But yeah, when I do start cheating on What, it'll definetly only be enough to stay on the site.

    And there are some amazing posts in this thread, I really agree with ones that talk about Hit'n'run and considering others
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  24. #14
    Advanced User saebrtooth's Avatar
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    I wanna post but at the same time cant post. There is something conflicting within me.
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  25. #15
    Moderator anon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saebrtooth View Post
    I wanna post but at the same time cant post.
    Then don't post

    We aren't going to ban you or something for posting your opinion, so go ahead if you want
    "I just remembered something that happened a long time ago."
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