Feedback for changes part I

[Rebound]

Here you can leave feedback for the announcement.

[SealLion]

....t, but otherwise nothing seems to be able to be done to stop mod theft.

......

anon, having a closed registration isn't going to stop mod theft.

Most of the people here already know who is here with his current account who

1. either doesn't' post at all and downloads mods for his site; or

2. posts very little to convince the current membership that he's not who we think he might be and continues to download mods for his site.


Having a closed registratin system isn't going to be cure.

It'll be a cure for the 90+ % of people who just sign up with no posts and only just download stuff, but it won't be much of a solution for mod/tool stealers. Those guys are already here.
And thier still here.

Certain areas of the forum should be members only, like cheating experiences, mod and tool settings/threads and perhaps trade (and giveaway?) threads......

I don't agree with this mike because how do guests and potential members get experience and ideas on how to cheat successfully including where??

Do we leave potential members out in the dark??

I don't think that would be a wise idea at all, mike.

Someone here mentioned about starting out with a certain number of invites, such as 20 or so.....personnally, I think that's just a tad to high.

Who knows that many people on the net??

What if 20 invites were handed out to 20 people??

I am willing to bet that about 80% of those people will sign up with thier invites and never post. Maybe they will...for a short time and then that's it. No more posting or anything like that.

Then what??

Back to square one, yes??


I still feel strongly that potential members should fill out a short application form with a few wise questions being asked.

Such as how they heard of SBI;
what do they know of cheating;

etc...etc....

Have 'em fill out an application similiar to what PTN does.


0

[Stickbutt]

In addition to all that's been debated, wouldn't it also make sense to purge inactive users?

[douche99]

I don't agree with this mike because how do guests and potential members get experience and ideas on how to cheat successfully including where??

I understand what you are saying, but still...there is no "experience" to gather in the trade or giveaway section. If they see those sections then they might just want to join to make one post and leave forever like the zero posters in the trading section.

[rom08]

@ anon
At SM we are currently only 300 members and there is nearly no invite and they ban all inactive members. So now there about 30 new posts by month(maybe i am exagerating a little)!!It is very low.
What I mean is not to be too strict because you have the risk to see your forum deserted for another public one.
I think the best method is to have a member section by invitation AND by reward (someone wich have 1000 posts or something else I don't know)and a public one
I know invite system only is the most secure to avoid stealing but you only invite people that you know and so you loose fresh guys with a different way off seeing things.You lost diversity in my opinion wich is one off your strength

[SealLion]

In addition to all that's been debated, wouldn't it also make sense to purge inactive users?

STickbutt, have a look at the members list. You'll see that all posters with 0 posts have had their accounts deleted. The most that you'll see there are people that have at the least, one post.

Probably some of those are also inactive users but from what I see, all users that had 0 posts had thier accounts deleted. That was probably a good thing too as I remember going through the users list a few times and seeing that there were tonnes of users that had no posts at all.

@ anon
At SM we are currently only 300 members and there is nearly no invite and they ban all inactive members. So now there about 30 new posts by month(maybe i am exagerating a little)!!It is very low.
What I mean is not to be too strict because you have the risk to see your forum deserted for another public one...........................

.........You lost diversity in my opinion wich is one off your strength

This is such a good point that it deserves to be noticed.

It was mentioned before, though it wasn't noticed before a page or 2 back.

So you guys closed registration to the public.
Ok, that;s fine, then.
But take into consideration this point as well.

Here's a way around this potential problem.

Firstly, I don't think that an invite system will work at all. IT just won't.

If someone wants to join, they'll ask to join.
They'll click on a link on this site and ask to join. Invites aren't going to work.
IMHO, they just won't.
Where are you going to go to invite someone here??
AT an invite forum??.........I don't think that's workable.
How do you know that the guy your going to invite isn't a moderator eleswhere??
YOu don't. Plain and simply put.

Secondly, If someone wants to be a cheater, they'll come here,yes??
They're not going to go to an invite forum and ask to be a cheater there, yes?

that doesn't make sense.

I' ll say it again.
If someone want's to be a cheater, they'll come here.

That's the only sure-fire way for anyone of us to know that someone else want's to become a cheater: By signing up some application form here.

They'll click on some link that'll take them to some short application form that has some well thought out and intelligent questions, such as:

Theres are examples only.

How did they first become aware that cheating is an alternative to gaining a decent ratio??

What other cheating boards, other than SBI, are they aware of??

what is their opinion of mods being stolen and not given credit for to the original author??


ARe they staff member at a torrent site??

IF so, this should NOT hinder their application to here. As a matter of fact, I think that this would certainly add to the forums userbase with respect to opinions and ideas given here.

Why have only a cheater's perspective??

Intelligent conversation can be had with a staff member from a torrent site.

You get the idea overall though??


Invites might work, but they won't be effective.

Having an invite system is not going to be as effective as you guys might like it to be.

They might work, but the new system that you guys are thinking of implementing won't be as effective as you'll like it to be.

Its the difference between sitting behind the steering wheel and actually driving the car versus only just sitting behind the steering wheel.

You need to think about a number of questions:

Where specifically will you go to hand out invites??

seriously, think about that for a moment.


What about a potential dead forum??

Do you want that to happen??

Right now, I think ( correct me if I'm wrong), if your account isn't active for 90 days or so, it's deleted, yes??

that's fine.

And that's a good way to get rid of non-posters too.


I'll tell you right now. If I am potentially handed out invites in my profile, I probably won't use them.

from experience, I know that when I handed out invites to torrent sites those invites were never used.

I would expect the same here. If I hand out an invite to hear, the invitee might become curious, join, though hardly if ever post.

Basically, my invite was a waste. Just like my invites in the past were wasted invites to that torrent site.

Thats how I feel about this issue.

[anon]

anon, having a closed registration isn't going to stop mod theft.

Most of the people here already know who is here with his current account who

1. either doesn't' post at all and downloads mods for his site; or

2. posts very little to convince the current membership that he's not who we think he might be and continues to download mods for his site.

Yes, that's right. Potential mod stealers most likely still have accounts here, but with our closed registrations they're getting shot one by one. It's now no longer possible to simply reregister, and SBI-exclusive mods (such as B18_Rev1 of the Extreme Mod) remain SBI-exclusive.

I don't agree with this mike because how do guests and potential members get experience and ideas on how to cheat successfully including where??

We thought about this and it's a delicate issue. Maybe there will be a guest area where they'll be able to share experiences with each other there. We could copy things like the tracker cheating Tables, and that'd give them some info to bootstrap with. This is one possibility.

wouldn't it also make sense to purge inactive users?

That has already been done.

like the zero posters in the trading section.

Remember some people may have "zero" posts because those made in the Invite Trading area don't count.

I understand what you are saying, but still...there is no "experience" to gather in the trade or giveaway section.

I'll give you that one. We're currently reconsidering whether they should remain open to everyone.

That's the only sure-fire way for anyone of us to know that someone else want's to become a cheater: By signing up some application form here.

But what's to prevent him from lying? A leaker could write that he's totally against our mods being ripped off and profited from, and a tracker admin that he simply isn't one.

I remember someone posted here that 80% of things on his PTN application form were lies, and his profile links and speedtest stolen, and he managed to get in.

I think you're right with invites often collecting dust (20 invites? This isn't IPT) - but this has its downsides as well. Based on the sent forms, we could end up inviting a leaker, for example, and all effort goes to hell.

You said it yourself - he could even post from time to time to convince us he's not what we think.

Don't get me wrong, though - your idea has a lot of potential. But we'd need to either make some good questions or be [even more] selective with who we invite in.

Right now, I think ( correct me if I'm wrong), if your account isn't active for 90 days or so, it's deleted, yes??

It isn't deleted but locked. You can use the "contact us" link at the bottom for us to reenable your account.

[DarkSaint]

an issue on who do u invite? How can we trust them?

[SealLion]

wEll, I don't know what other ideas to bring up then.

Other than to repeat myself by suggesting that invites are just going to grow mold on them and that they're basically going to become useless.
AT least that's how I would see it.

I know that others see it differently, but the more I think about it, the less effective I see this whole idea becoming.

now you mentioned that mod stealers are getting shot down one by one. Ok, great.
But there's one thing here that's been overlooked.
Mods can still be downloaded by non-registered users, yes??

Again, it hasn't become effective the way that I think you guys would like to see it.

It's either:

never register, download mods, and have mods stolen

Or....

forced registration, download and post.

or....


forced registration, download mods, never post.

but then if you do the second one, I think that you risk having a poor userbase with respect to numbers, the forum will become dead.

At least that's how I would see it if it goes that way.
I don't think anyone here wants to see that, yes??

I don't know......I really don;t know what to think.
\

Having gotten rid of all the non-posters/zero posters was a step in the right direction.

The registration being closed was a fair idea too, though now you guys are wondering about if invites will work....I honestly just don't believe that they're going to work.
I really dont.

It;s not so much a matter of trust of who you invite here, as that can equally be applied to what we have here right now with our current userbase.

I mean how do you guys know that someone here...anyone for that matter , isn't a member of some other board and hands of mods there??
( and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, it's merely an idea being expressed and not strongly suggesting that this is the case either. It probably isn't. At least we hope it isn't)

But anyways...YOu just don't. You don't know who is.

Basically, your still on square one on that element.

And about the questionaire thing...well, I don't know what to suggest other than to have a multiple questionairres (as oppossed to just one perhaps) set-up so as to prevent leakage on that which therefore risks cheating on 80% of the questions.

And if your selective with who you invite in....well, that's not a bad idea. I think that would be 'ok'.

Though ask yourself this question:

If we were selective, would that permit a positive change in userbase growth or would that stunt userbase growth??

I'm basically try'in to get you guys to think critically on this and not just to think and do and have very little effect on what-ever actions are going to take place on it.

[anon]

now you mentioned that mod stealers are getting shot down one by one. Ok, great.
But there's one thing here that's been overlooked.
Mods can still be downloaded by non-registered users, yes??

Those mods have already been leaked, and therefore we'd be doing more harm than good if we withheld them. We plan to make new mods members-only.

And if your selective with who you invite in....well, that's not a bad idea. I think that would be 'ok'.

Yes, of course. Receiving a filled application form doesn't mean we have to accept the new member - the final word is up to us.

If we were selective, would that permit a positive change in userbase growth or would that stunt userbase growth??

It depends on how things go. But a lot of people will try to apply for a membership, that's for sure.

[SealLion]

.......
It depends on how things go. But a lot of people will try to apply for a membership, that's for sure.

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what comes up with all of this then.


but I would earnestly suggest that you guys think about the future of this place as what-ever actions are taken place will have some consequences, either good or bad.
Maybe a mixture of both.
Who knows.

But just be aware of this. You mentioned that new mods are being developed for members only.
Ok, great.

Though what will happen if member 'A' joins, leaks the mods, pretends he's not leaking them and continues to post like he's just a regular guy.
Then what??

I guess like DarkSaint suggested: It's a matter of who you trust. But then, that trust could turn into lies, yes??

[anon]

but I would earnestly suggest that you guys think about the future of this place

You can be sure we do.

Though what will happen if member 'A' joins, leaks the mods, pretends he's not leaking them and continues to post like he's just a regular guy.
Then what??

It won't be as easy as that. And as a lot less people will have access to members-only mods, it'll be easier to narrow down on the leaker.

[SealLion]

But how will you be able to narrow down the leaker??

The leaker could sign up with a username completely different to where he originates from.

actually, wait....better not tell.
Don't wan't to know secrets that'll be leaked to people who don't need to know b/c everyone reads this.

I know what your thinking, anon.
Your thinking that there'll be someone who always downloads every mod that's in the members-mods only area, yes??

But you'll still have difficulty narrowing down that info.

How can you tell if someone always downloads every single mod??
YOu can't.

Anyways......

I'd like to touch upon a subject that me and rom08 (originally him, actually) already brought up and that is the potential for this place, as a result of having a lot less users, to go down in membership numbers.

So here's some questions to ponder cuz I'm thinking the same things:

#1 Is it best to have a handful of members that post frequently ( strictly as a result of having a closed registration system), where the post quantity and quality remains at its current status and where the potential of opinions may be limited as a result of having a limited registration system. And where you have to expect the known fact that users do eventually (as time goes by) diminish in quantity as a result of IRL issues taking precedence or other elements not previously foreseen. As the userbase diminish's in quantity, so also does the forums usuage.

#2 Because it's a closed system, is it reasonable to expect that people will, or may, attempt to not further their efforts to seek entry into here, thus bringing about the issue of a lack of the forum's usage??

[douche99]

But how will you be able to narrow down the leaker??

Well, I think that is already possible, when you have to hit the thanks button to view the pw to unrar the files. Dont know if it is on every mod, but on quite a few.

So maybe extending it to all files would be helpful narrowing it down.

[rom08]

Thanks for this one SealLion.
My point is that people I relly trust think the same way as me(most of) and so I don't have lots of subject to discuss 'cause I agree with them.To debate and have a good usage of your forum you need people who aren't always agree with you and they are often people you doesn't really trust.I don't want to come here to say thanks for a new mod post some stats and nothing else.
This is the problem of SM when someone post a subject most of the time I have nothing more to add so the discussion is really short.It is something that can happen here.
What about people wich doesn't know anyone who can give them an invitation?
When I first came here and maybe still now I didn't know someone who trust me enought to invite me!
Free registration is diversity .You have this way worldwide members(I'm from France,Xixifranck is from China,SealLion is from Antartica ...),different culture and so different way of thinking and that's it that make your board really attractive.
When I came here first the most subject were in German but now it is not anymore the case.I think it is because of free registration(and of course because of your mod and reactivity for support).
If you're too strict someone will create another board with free registration and most of your users might leave and you might die slowly.
So please be just very carrefull it is very hard to decide.
Anyway i think there is no perfect decision there is only a less worst one

[slikrapid]

some thoughts & ideas:

- closing registration & invite only (limited to Mod/Elite/VIP/...), deleting old, 0-10 posts after 2 weeks after activation, warnings for users with low post count if their posts are useless and aimed just to pump up the number

results:

- less leaking (and diminishing after some leaker gets caught), less inactive users
- lower user base - a minimum number of users needed to run the site (costs,...) should be roughly calculated + a few percents more to be on the safe side
- mass PM to all users not to spread mods around and what are the consequences
- info for non members who visit the site about the reasons for closed registrations suggesting to them to be patient and wait until the leak problem is solved
- verified leakers - record their IP, ISP, usage pattern, posting pattern, which leaked mods, where they posted it for non members, watch for accounts opened at close time period to those of leakers (again, similar IP/ISP,...)
- maybe: not allow IPs for one user to go outside of his ISP range, at least for registration & downloading mods

problems:

- if leakers have a large number of accounts here it will take time to identify them
- methods that can identify leakers should be really accurate so that every mod leak results in one account ban. i think this is the major issue: if you can't positively identify the leaker then all this discussion doesn't matter much and the results won't be adequate enough

how about this idea:

maybe every new mod should have a hidden ID number that can be linked directly to the member who downloaded it so when his mod leaks in the public and you get it from some other site, perform an ID check and see exactly who is the member responsible for the leak. this ID should maybe be encrypted and hard to find within program code. maybe it could be placed on different locations within the code so if a leaker is able to identify some of these hidden ID's, he won't be certain how many more are there; or embed these ID's in such way that the mod can't work without it

problems (continued):

- this doesn't solve tracker admin presence here, since they don't have the need/intention to spread mods among users, but rather to investigate how to track the mods/cheaters
- future members who might help won't be able to get inside; and the question is how would they prove themselves in the first place


if i understood it correctly mod 'theft' isn't a major problem in itself, but those who falsely take credit for creating mods or profit from sites that spread them around are

some comments on other user ideas:

- application form: works only on noobs, experienced users/admins/leakers will give smart enough answers and will get inside; nevertheless some contact form should be available for future users or those that are interested
- invite system: good for controlled increase of the user base (if necessary), if some member thinks another non-member would help the site in some way he can talk to staff (the only ones who can invite) about it
- every new user should prove himself in some way before getting access to mods: this could increase time between new possible leaks, it could be a month of proving time for example