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Thread: Al Jazeera English: VIDEO: What future for 'Greater Israel'?

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    Al Jazeera English: VIDEO: What future for 'Greater Israel'?

    An interesting video on how Israel had it's financial start at the expense of the UN and other European states.

    Six decades after its founding, Israel has grown into one of the world's top 20 industrial states, with GNP (General National Product) superior to all its neighbours combined
    Oh, yes. No doubt.

    The US and other interested states have a very strong interest in ensuring the financial stability of Israel and the continuation of the strength of it's military.


    Thanks to decades of preferential treatment by Western superpowers, Israel has had its cake and eaten it too. It has occupied, annexed and exploited Palestinian and Arab lands with impunity, and at the same time received over $100bn as the West's foremost ally in the Middle East.
    Europe and the US are the most influential parties involved. There is more aid to Israel by the Christian far right who have a faith and politiacal interest in ensuring that Israel get's the governmental funding that the US currently gives it.

    The very strong Israeli lobby groups in the US and other European states also ensure that the funding for Israel remains totally and incomprehensibly out of proportion to other funding such as health care, housing, education, and aid to other countries that could use legit aid.

    In the video, Avraham Burg mentions about a global policy world policy with respect to influence in the region.LIsten in carefully.



    Israel does not even regard itself a part of the Middle east. Again, it's on the video.

    The video also makes mention of New World strategy to end the wars in the Middle East. That may be, but I believe that there is far more to strategies in ending wars in the mIddle east.

    In consideration of the NWO....I've come across the opinion of another person about test subjects.

    We've all come across the notion of test subjects in science, yes??
    We've come across the fact of having test animals for pharmaceutical testing, yes??

    Would it be possible to have a large group of people ( disregarding ethnic differences here) as test subjects of the NWO??

    Nevertheless....Israel is gainiing more and more control over the lands that Gazans and Palestinians once held. Literally throwing them off their lands by setting up illegal settlements, building a wall that is much larger than the wall that once separated East and West Berlin.

    That wall is basically, and I've mentioned it once before, a land grab.

    take the most fertile lands held by the Palestinians and give over to the Israeli settlers.

    Israel's control over the Occupied Territories has radicalised its own society and identity as much as it has deformed that of the Palestinians.
    Palestinians live in abject poverty. Very few journalists are permitted to travel to certain areas in GAza and Palestine.

    Here is the link to Al Jazeera English news brief:

    Here is also a Google video that is about 1.5 hours long. If you have the time and interest, it's very interesting to watch. I do believe that it is reputable as well.

    the above video touches upon about the historicity of the conflict, the disproportionate financial contributions that Israel gets from the US and other countries, the extreme poverty that the Palestinians live in compared to the Oasis's that are in the Israeli settlements.
    It also talks about the war crimes that is committed by the Israeli army, yet because of VEto powers and the strength of it's army, is never questioned let alone prosecuted for.

    Isn't there some kind of an idea running around that the longer and harder a suppressed people experience being under, that they eventually rise up and kick their masters in the ass and throw them out??

    .....I hope so.

    One day, it'll happen.
    "God, from the mount Sinai
    whose grey top shall tremble,
    He descending, will Himself,
    in thunder, lightning, and loud trumpet’s sound,
    ordain them laws".


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    Advanced User slikrapid's Avatar
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    a few thoughts on the subject:

    - so many failed 'peace' agreements, yet some of the persons involved have been awarded with the nobel peace prize - for what, failure?

    - $100bn for an ally in the middle east? can anyone mention an important action, or effort done by this ally, that may justify these donations? btw, the attack on the uss liberty doesn't count

    - the palestinians have been facing ethnic cleansing for decades, does someone honestly think it will change in the future or that they will regain their lost land & properties? think again

    - anyone checked out what the talmud has to say about non-jews (aka gentiles)? see for yourself, they are ranked & explicitly defined as animals

    - can it be that the h0l0caust itself has faced some serious credibility problems? - check out what the revisionists have to say, you may be astonished - note also that by publicly expressing doubt or denial of the aforementioned event you may be fined & imprisoned in many 'democratic' countries (you may think there are no dogmas outside of religions, think again)

    from the first video:

    - anyone noticed the global agenda proposed by the zionist representative on more than one occasion (socialism is proved wrong, capitalism is on its knees, so we need....globalism)

    - are you aware the zionists put the forming of israel in motion in the first place

    - talking about 'two sides' is called relativizing & shifting responsibility

    - so if israel thinks of themselves as part of the west, modern, without correlations to the middle east (which is total nonsense as they originate from even further east, where they were known as 'the wanderers' ie. nomads without land), why did they choose to settle in the middle east just prior, during and after the WW2 - wouldn't a more western location be more reasonable?

    - you can see that the blame is being constantly shifted from the originators, so nowadays its popular to blame the usa, but the fact is the usa government is caught in lobby claws that no one dares to fiddle with/about

    - the usa president is a israel representative or a parent?? wtf?

    from part 2:

    - another shift in perspective - now the 2 palestinian territories are viewed as the problem, having the 'law of the jungle', and the rest of the israel (from where most of these palestinians have been expelled in the first place) enjoys no questioning - thats how territories are one step at a time incorporated into a body thats not questioned and therefore untouchable in future discussions - you just shift the problem to another area

    - as for negotiating positions - if one builds more settlements, later he can have better negotiating position and if the negotiation fails, well, they just bought time for creating a few more settlements and so on

    - and they keep saying a two state solution is no longer an option because the israeli government isn't thinking about the future - which is misleading - why is it becoming less of an option? because of the ever-growing settlements - who is creating the new settlements? israel

    - 'the day will come when the people will say to their politicians: save us from ourselves' - a clear NWO rhetoric example

    - and the pathetic journalist attempt to say that the history chose these two nations to live on that territory is false - palestinians lived there long ago, then came zionists, bought loads of land and proceeded to move jewish people (from all over the world) on that newly acquired land - in the meantime they managed to create the country called israel legalizing their actions as this country has been founded/recognized (and guess what, its not negotiable in the future)

    - also the nonsense about occupying countries not being tolerated by the original inhabitants which will cause them to abandon colonization is false: see the usa & the american natives, see australia & the aboriginese, see england & the commonwealth, or african countries nowadays - who made the biggest profit from colonization? the natives were either largely exterminated & put to isolated camps or their economy heavily infiltrated so that even today they don't own their country's resources
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    It's true that Zionism had it's role in the creation of the Israeli state. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

    Zionism is the international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel, the historical homeland of the Jews. Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to support it.
    Here is the wikipedia link to the above qoute:

    Zionism is a brand of nationalism.

    It is a type of the broader phenomenon of modern nationalism
    ( from same link given above)

    That's all good and godly to be nationalist for your own country.

    It is a matter of pride for one's country and I can't say anything bad about that.
    But when it comes to nationalism whereby it involves the extermination of an ethnic group of people, such as the Palestinian peoples then that's an entirely new concept and shouldn't be accepted in any way by any person in any region of the globe.

    That is supportive of ethnic cleansing. Which is exactly what the Israelis are doing. Which is exactly what happened in Rwanda too.

    It is true that all ethnic populations deserve a homeland. Even if that homeland is also populated by other ethnic groups that persecute a second ethnic group living in that same country or region. The old Yugoslavia republic is but just one example.
    There are also examples in Africa...remember the genocide that occured in Rwanda??

    Disregarding all critiques and controversies, that is but another example of the right of ethnic groups having a right to live somewhere on the earth; however, when it comes to wanting to shove- off the land, another ethnic group ( in this case Palestinians) and going on a rampage of ethnic cleansing is quite another.

    Ethnic cleansing is genocide and is not only inhumane, morally illegal, totally incomprehensible, but also alien to the human psyche of compassion.

    For a group of people ( that are faith serving that is, and it's not all Israeli's, it's just a select few in government, the Israeli military, and other groups of people set in positions of global influence and managing global events), I would say that it is unserving of God.

    For an ally on the North American continent to favorably contribute over 100 billion dollars is atrocious. All the meanwhile contribute very, very little to the aid of the Palestinians oppressed or taking sides to end a peace process to only bring about a global image that it want's to end suppression, hunger, war, and so forth in the region.

    It absolutely stymies my imagination on why a faith serving people would go ahead and serve up a plate of ethnic cleansing and take what land they can from the Palestinians.

    This is also true for the Christian far-right.
    Not all Christian peoples.
    Those one's with a conscious and knowledge of the what's morally acceptable are exempt.
    But I mean the very far right.

    The one's that have this idea and support of Israeli's returning to thier Holy Land.

    Here is a qoute from Wikipedia:

    Christians have a long history of supporting the return of Jews to the Holy Land prior to Zionism. One of the principal Protestant teachers who promoted the biblical doctrine that the Jews would return to their national homeland was John Nelson Darby.

    He is credited with being the major promoter of the idea ....... His views were embraced by many evangelicals and also affected international foreign policy.]
    Just like I say.....international foreign policy. And by whom do you think??

    Notable early supporters of Zionism include British Prime Ministers David Lloyd George and Arthur Balfour, American President Woodrow Wilson . ...... Christian Zionism strengthened significantly after the Six-Day War of 1967, and many dispensationalist Christians, especially in the United States, now strongly support Zionism.
    No kidding, eh??
    Supportive of Israel not only morally, but financially and politically as well.

    You can read all that from the Wikepedia link that I gave above if you like.

    And yes. I can see that the US government is caught in the claws of the lobby groups.
    Fiddle with that and only a new government will get elected that is supportive of Israeli efforts and in the Middle east.

    Is the President in that country a representative or a parent....??

    No doubt a representative, I'd say.
    People in positions of political office are meant to serve the people that elect them, but in this case, considering the strength of Israeli support, I'd say a servant and representative of Israel.

    Not disregarding global influential efforts that don't really give a damn what government is in office in any country, though in this case it's the US that we're talking about since that country has such high global influence, those global influential groups would more than likely ensure that Israel gets the funding that it wants... er....that it is supposed to have.

    As for the 2 state approach in the region, that's unlikely to succeed.

    Many attempts have been made to broker a two-state solution, which would entail the creation of an independent Palestinian state alongside an independent Jewish state or next to the State of Israel
    and as for this:

    A handful of academics advocate a one-state solution, whereby all of Israel, the Gaza Strip, and West Bank would become a bi-national state with equal rights for all.
    Israel doesn't care for such an approach, IMHO.

    So after reading that, I can't but recall Apartheid South Africa before it changed it's ways in the 1990's after reading that.
    Is it possible for Israel to garner the former establishment that the former Apartheid South Africa had in it's dealings with it's neighbors and resident non-white's??

    well considering how antagonistic and vilifying some of the fundamental far-right in Israel and abroad are towards Palestinian peoples....most likely.

    Here's the link for that:

    as for this:

    as for negotiating positions - if one builds more settlements, later he can have better negotiating position and if the negotiation fails, well, they just bought time for creating a few more settlements and so on
    that I can see. Build a few more settlements and your bargaining power just increased ten-fold.

    Here's something else from the last link that I gave:

    The Israeli Cabinet issued a statement expressing that it does not wish the Palestinians to build up an army capable of offensive operations, considering that the only party against which such an army could be turned in the near future is Israel itself.

    However, Israel has already allowed for the creation of a Palestinian police that can conduct police operations and also carry out limited-scale warfare. Palestinians have argued that the Israel Defense Forces, a large and modern armed force, poses a direct and pressing threat to the sovereignty of any future Palestinian state, making a defensive force for a Palestinian state a matter of necessity.
    Of course not. The less resistance, the better off Israel is.

    If there was a Palestinian army, then there would be more justification for Palestinians to have their own land with their own rights that could not be trampled upon by the Israelis. Such as the border wall that is still being constructed by the Israeli government to grab what fertile land the Palestinians currently have.

    To this, Israelis claim that signing a treaty while building an army is a show of bad intentions.
    that;'s just an excuse. Like I say above, the less resistance the better off Israel is. It's not the 'bad intentions' that are made mention of. It's the fact that Israel doesn't want any opposition to it's agenda of suppression of Palestinians.

    The whole issue is just one event that is destined to turn into something far more than what is broadcast on the air waves.
    Last edited by SealLion; 28.12.09 at 19:14.
    "God, from the mount Sinai
    whose grey top shall tremble,
    He descending, will Himself,
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    ordain them laws".


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    Quote Originally Posted by SealLion View Post
    Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:
    an example of wikipedia false propaganda in that excerpt:

    homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel, the historical homeland of the Jews.

    Ethnic cleansing is genocide
    correction: Ethnic cleansing is the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous

    but often the two go hand in hand

    For a group of people ([I] that are faith serving that is, and it's not all Israeli's, it's just a select few in government...I would say that it is unserving of God.
    well, if they follow the talmud, they are allowed to treat the palestinians (also considered as gentiles) however they like, including abuse,...as long as they are not caught doing it

    It absolutely stymies my imagination on why a faith serving people would go ahead and serve up a plate of ethnic cleansing and take what land they can from the Palestinians.
    in the video (3rd one i think) you can see an israeli woman shouting over the military check point ramp that its their god given land - which shows the level of their religious indoctrination, they consider palestinians as intruder (animals) that have no 'god given' right to that land

    as if that kind of obsession/mania is not tragic enough, there is evidence that their old religious texts are in fact a distorted astrotheological version of egyptian mythology combined with several other far eastern religions with a substantial amount of male superiority (patriarchy) - even the name israel comes from a combination of Is (Isis - egyptian moon godess) Ra (egyptian sun god) El (hebrew for god)

    This is also true for the Christian far-right.
    afaik they also believe that in the end the jews will also convert to christianity
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