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anon
29.11.08, 17:51
Today, we'd like to once again present the biggest problem for our coders' productivity. Currently, new mods are released as never before, even more than in the past at other boards. In addition, there are many other, unique ongoing projects of the highest quality. Until now this is all good, and for our mods' actual users, a whole advantage.

Almost half a year ago, we decided to disable the so-called "credit system", as it makes little sense to force someone to write something, only to then be able to download our mods. This method has gone outdated, so we removed it from our forum. Since then, the downloads amount has of course increased significantly, and the posts one slightly decreased.

But let's go back to our main problem. As it always happens, there are people who are jealous or simply envious of our great work, and simply want to hurt us and take the biggest slice of the pie. That's of course understandable, as we can with a little pride say we are the worldwide #1 board with such an unique, straightforward offer.

We have many times used the time where we'd usually meet up with our friends, or earn money, to invest it in this forum. SB-Innovation has become somewhat more developed, which is increasingly time-consuming. Every new project requires hundreds of hours of work, but we take the needed time and patience for new inventions. We do this for you, not for us.

There is a site (whose name is irrelevant) which doesn't respect our work, mocks us, and releases our products as theirs. Of course this fact alone doesn't matter to us, partly because we're not at such a low level - we simply don't need it. However, his page only exists to monetarily profit from our work, so it's our exact opposite.

In recent weeks we have had a huge decline in our amount of visitors, which makes us lack the advertising revenue we urgently need to pay our server. Also, our public image risks getting damaged if copies of our programs going by different names, to the point of being unrecognizable, keep on appearing and circulating around the net. (Although this somehow flatters us, as it'd mean our work is so good that attempting to copy it is the only alternative.)

The people behind this site effectively don't seem to know what they're doing. Without us there would be no new mods, without new mods there would be no money, and without money they'd have to either close the site or post only bad 0-day tools and other unneeded things.

Given this situation, it won't be long until we take the first steps against mod stealing. Maybe we'll have to stop releasing mods forever (at least for the public sector), or close registration and switch to an "invite only" system.

Reality is, in that case we'd be certainly taking a step backwards, which we can't accept. This article is only to inform our users, and everyone else that's interested, about our situation, and possible changes to our site to stop the mod stealing.

On this note, have a nice weekend and think about what many of you take for granted but what actually isn't.

The SB-Innovation Team

vDD+wR
29.11.08, 20:29
First of all I want to thank you for the moderators point of view on the issue.
This is a really hard decision indeed, which has to made and as I got it, reactivating the credit-system as it was once, wouldn't be a satisfying idea.
Of course the advantage for the reactivation is that this forum might become more lively but I suppose the amount of possible spam-posts would raise too. So, that would only leave open the option for implementing the invite only-function which would keep away a huge amount of those, who are just signing up here for being able to download the mods.
But that would of course be against the principles of a free board and comes sowhow equal with a censorship. On the other hand this would of course make the board more attractive!
Nevertheless people are working hard here to keep the board as a good as it is at the moment and they are investing money to pay the server bills as well! From that point of view I would understand every decision that would help to increase the quality on the board. If that would mean to close the sign-ups in order to curtail and the number of people who don't appreciate your efforts and publish your mods under another name, I would support and understand your motives.
Keep up the fantastic work, guys!

greetings vDD+wR

anon
29.11.08, 22:53
I agree with every point in your post. Reintroducing the credit system would make many people post just to get our mods (just look at 00DE now), while keeping it as it is now makes most members just download them and not being part of the community, which is sad, but we can't force them to participate.

In the other hand, I think making the board invite-only could solve the problem with the aforementioned site, and perhaps also make newly registered members post a bit more than they do now (at least, I'd do so if I got an invite to the best leecher-board in the Net), but at the cost or narrowing our horizon. Maybe some find this good, as we'll be drawing less attention, some of which could have been unwanted. I personally find it bad, because our philosophy is that P2P should be free for everyone - and our mods won't if we make the board invite-only.

It's a tough decision, but we can't be investing our time and best efforts in the mods & tools, for the people behind the site to cash on and rip them off. :mad:

SealLion
29.11.08, 23:26
There is an idea to the problem at hand:

What my suggestion would entail is to delete the members who have not posted within, for example, the last year or last 6 months.

This would shorten the member's list, yet it would also decrease the the board being taken advantage of with respect to the mods being downloaded with out someone posting in the forums.

Its obvious that there exist members here who are the staff members of another forum, a.k.a. S****4.org and others I am sure, who are members here, yet do not post, only to download.


I also think that having the board become invite only would be a good idea.

It would increase board security to current members for one thing. Me and others wouldn't have to worry about tracker admins lurking and sneaking around, yes??
Is board security important?? I believe it is and should not be NOT considered.


It would also decrease the mods being stolen by other member's who are, or belong to, the other-guy-we-all-know-about.
What-ever the hell his name is again.

How and where would someone use the invites to this board??
On a private tracker?? I don't think so.
So that's one concern I would have with this idea.

One way for others to attain entry to the site would be to have an official IRC channel.

One could gain entry to the board from there, yes??

the board would set up dedicated members, perhaps. I don't know. Its just an idea.

One problem I could foresee with this idea is that the chatroom is not visited. There's no-one ever there. No-one comes to it. I came to it once, no-one to chat with. Would the same problem occur in a potential IRC room??
Its possible.
If it did occur, how would one gain access to the board then if no-one's around??
I have no idea.

Personnally, I think its OK that this board has a few member's who do post. A small community of sorts to put it one way.

But I do feel strongly that this board should delete member's from the Member's LIst who do not, or have not posted within a certain time frame. Again, 6 months....3 months.
TAke your pick.

Other private trackers do this. Why can't we do this as well.

The board would still be offering the mods for free. The board would not be limiting the downloads to anyone, only offering them via conditions, i.e. posting. whats wrong with that??

I'm a member of a board where it is conditioned that one post at least 2X on the board to be able to view .avi's.
Its the same principle.

Nevertheless, having the board become an invite only board would serve 2 ideas:
1. Board security;
2. Less mod theft

vDD+wR
29.11.08, 23:49
good evening SL :wink:


I also think that having the board become invite only would be a good idea.

Actually i like the idea of an invite only board too! But this wouldnt solve the problem of inactive users, i think. In my opinion it would decrease the number of users with 0 posts a bit. But of course, it's better than nothing!



It would increase board security to current members for one thing. Me and others wouldn't have to worry about tracker admins lurking and sneaking around, yes??
Is board security important?? I believe it is and should not be NOT considered.

I think, it would be just a matter of time, till the admins, mods and other would get an invite... :mad:


But I do feel strongly that this board should delete member's from the Member's LIst who do not, or have not posted within a certain time frame. Again, 6 months....3 months.
There I have to agree too. There isn't any use neither for the board's life nor for any secruity and "anti-theft" reasons to let those singned up who don't have an amount of posts in a certain time.

To cut long story short, I can agree pretty on everything you're saying. :wink:

Just one idea on the invite system that I want to add: Maybe we could do this as torrent-invites is handling this atm. They have a special area inside the board, where newbies can request an invite for getting into the real board. This would require of course a lot of time and work from the mods. And another question how those people are seperated from those whom an invite isn't granted. (The critera for the selections i mean :wink:)
Of course this just an impression, and can be improved. Maybe someone has an idea how to improve the sign up process!


So good nite SBI members!:biggrin:

SealLion
30.11.08, 00:42
good evening SL :wink

Good evening to you too, my friend.




Just one idea on the invite system that I want to add: Maybe we could do this as torrent-invites is handling this atm. They have a special area inside the board, where newbies can request an invite for getting into the real board. This would require of course a lot of time and work from the mods. And another question how those people are seperated from those whom an invite isn't granted. (The critera for the selections i mean :wink:)
Of course this just an impression, and can be improved. Maybe someone has an idea how to improve the sign up process!


I don't quite follow this at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong. What your suggesting is that SBI have a section inside some torrent site where SBI members would give out invites to SBI??

I don't think that'll work vDD+wR

discovery and becoming banned from that tracker site would be inevitable and unworkable.

Honestly, vDD+wR, thats too much work. Really it is. I don't think such an idea is workable.
Yes. I know. Its just an idea.

The idea that'll maybe work is board-enforced user posting, like Anon was suggesting above.

But then again, perhaps, that is, the board will wind up with a bunch of spam posts.

Not entirely workable either.

ONe takes chances with such an idea:

Angry members;
disillusionment from members with the board who therefore go to another place;
collusion of members with other boards to download material and then send it off to their new cheater's home..i.e. S****4-the-dog-in-continual-and-perpetual-never-ending-heat

But definitly delete the pple who've not posted within a decent amount of time. And quick-double-quick with that, too I say.
That should be the first step to undertake.

s#### is here. Thats obvious:Get rid of the pple who don't post---get rid of s****4 et al.


does this board seem concerned with mod theft??
Obviously.

Does the board seem concerned with member security??
That question hasn't been answered yet. Hopefully, and I'm sure the answer will be 'yes'.

Does this board have a tool to use to rid itself of non-posting members who only sign-in to DL??
Yes. And I've mentioned it here.

Pickle
30.11.08, 00:50
i can make you sure those invites would be as rare as top level tracker invites. :) that is not a prediction simply is a fact.

SealLion
30.11.08, 00:55
HOly Frak!!!!

I never thought about that!!!!

LOL. HarHarHarHar.....{evil laugh}.
{there should be a smiley for an evil laugh. cAn we plz have one??}

WEll. Aside from that becoming a possibility. Lets here what some other mods have got to say. So far. Only Anon has posted.

shoulder
30.11.08, 01:06
Just to let everyone know, there's the german pendant out there which is a few days older and has a lot of posts, so everyone who is willing to use an online translater can have a look at it.

Klappe zu - Affe tod (http://www.sb-innovation.de/f166/klappe-zu-affe-tod-7416/)

fromas
30.11.08, 01:10
how can we get the money to pay the server if we are invite only,
thats the main problem

Pickle
30.11.08, 11:37
google checkout :)

Manas
30.11.08, 11:44
how can we get the money to pay the server if we are invite only,
thats the main problem


We could tell the people that we'll open signups 10 mins every day :biggrin:
Maybe there will be enough guests then :tongue:

anon
30.11.08, 16:51
@SealLion & vDD+wR:

There is an idea to the problem at hand:

What my suggestion would entail is to delete the members who have not posted within, for example, the last year or last 6 months.

This would shorten the member's list, yet it would also decrease the the board being taken advantage of with respect to the mods being downloaded with out someone posting in the forums.

Its obvious that there exist members here who are the staff members of another forum, a.k.a. S****4.org and others I am sure, who are members here, yet do not post, only to download.

Perhaps we could do that to clean-up our database - if the board was like 4-5 years old. I think that isn't the way to go for now, because the kind of members you're talking about can easily re-register, while the ones that could have started posting in the future will feel discouraged to do so. I personally didn't start posting when I registered, but some time after that, and if my inactive account had been pruned I probably wouldn't be here right now.


I also think that having the board become invite only would be a good idea.

It would increase board security to current members for one thing. Me and others wouldn't have to worry about tracker admins lurking and sneaking around, yes??
Is board security important?? I believe it is and should not be NOT considered.

I understand your point of view, and acknowledge that if things keep on going the way they are right now, we'll have to switch to invite-only, but consider that:

we code most of the mods available at our board (when one isn't made by us we ask its coder for permission to post it here, and make it clear that it's coded by him) because we want P2P to be free - not to be tied to possible uploading/ratio restrictions. If we make the board invite-only, we're adding another restriction.
we need the advertising revenue to pay our server's bills, which we can't get (in its totality) if only a select group of members is able to access the board.

Don't get me wrong; maybe we'll end up doing so. But we have to consider these things.


...
How and where would someone use the invites to this board??
On a private tracker?? I don't think so.
So that's one concern I would have with this idea.

Definitely not :biggrin: They'd be handled as I've explained below.


One way for others to attain entry to the site would be to have an official IRC channel.

One could gain entry to the board from there, yes??

the board would set up dedicated members, perhaps. I don't know. Its just an idea.

One problem I could foresee with this idea is that the chatroom is not visited. There's no-one ever there. No-one comes to it. I came to it once, no-one to chat with. Would the same problem occur in a potential IRC room??
Its possible.
If it did occur, how would one gain access to the board then if no-one's around??
I have no idea.

Heh, this issue with the Chatroom is a separate one. I guess it depends on when you visit it, because every time I dropped by there were at least a handful of users talking :tongue:

Even if we implemented the IRC thing, and where to host it wasn't an issue, we need people to be on it and handle this system - dedicated members, as you've said. But you can imagine that our Mod team already spends a lot of time moderating the board itself, and that most users probably won't have enough time to "patrol" the IRC channel - I'm not saying they aren't interested though.

So maybe this idea could work... but we need people that can take care of it.


Personnally, I think its OK that this board has a few member's who do post. A small community of sorts to put it one way.

But I do feel strongly that this board should delete member's from the Member's LIst who do not, or have not posted within a certain time frame. Again, 6 months....3 months.
TAke your pick.

Other private trackers do this. Why can't we do this as well.

Private trackers are private trackers. They chose to prune users for inactivity (regardless of how much they've participated, unless they're in an user class that's inmune to inactivity deletion) because for some this can even be a security matter.

We aren't a tracker, and to repeat this again, if SB-I had pruned inactive (0 posts) accounts in the past, I probably wouldn't be here now. It's a kind of double-edged sword.


The board would still be offering the mods for free. The board would not be limiting the downloads to anyone, only offering them via conditions, i.e. posting. whats wrong with that??
...

That we can't force someone to post to get the mods... furthermore, it may end up with people just spamming to download them, like you said in post #6.


...
Correct me if I'm wrong. What your suggesting is that SBI have a section inside some torrent site where SBI members would give out invites to SBI??

I don't think that'll work vDD+wR

discovery and becoming banned from that tracker site would be inevitable and unworkable.

I think he meant a sub-forum in this same board where we could give invites to the Mods & Tools section (which would be hidden until you got one) to people that have been active in the other sub-forums.


The idea that'll maybe work is board-enforced user posting, like Anon was suggesting above.

But then again, perhaps, that is, the board will wind up with a bunch of spam posts.

Not entirely workable either.

I think the same, too. This is why the credit system was disabled. On one side we have enabling the CS and having to deal with more spam posts - on the other one, leaving things as they are now and lose a lot of posting activity, not to mention making things easier for this mod stealer.


ONe takes chances with such an idea:

Angry members;
disillusionment from members with the board who therefore go to another place;
collusion of members with other boards to download material and then send it off to their new cheater's home..i.e. S****4-the-dog-in-continual-and-perpetual-never-ending-heat

But definitly delete the pple who've not posted within a decent amount of time. And quick-double-quick with that, too I say.
That should be the first step to undertake.

s#### is here. Thats obvious:Get rid of the pple who don't post---get rid of s****4 et al.


I understand what you mean. But how can we know his account has 0 posts? It's possible for him to have made some, or have created an account which did behind a proxy, so as to "bypass" this whole account deletion. And we can't go and delete all accounts with less than 10, 20, etc. posts. That's definitely unfair for all the non-stealing users that bothered to participate when they weren't forced to in any way.

You talk about "a decent amount of time". And have mentioned 3 months in your other post. That's exactly the amount of time that passed between I registered here and started posting myself...


does this board seem concerned with mod theft??
Obviously.

Of course we are concerned about it - it's our coders, and the time and efforts they put on the mods our members can download for free that s****4 takes advantage of and cashes on.


Does the board seem concerned with member security??
That question hasn't been answered yet. Hopefully, and I'm sure the answer will be 'yes'.

I think you already know this is one of our biggest priorities.


Does this board have a tool to use to rid itself of non-posting members who only sign-in to DL??
Yes. And I've mentioned it here.

My guess is that pruning all of the inactive members' accounts is easy itself - but the whole decision behind it isn't.


LOL. HarHarHarHar.....{evil laugh}.
{there should be a smiley for an evil laugh. cAn we plz have one??}

I think we already have one -> :2412:


We could tell the people that we'll open signups 10 mins every day :biggrin:

That's so BCG when the method Aurion once posted worked :biggrin: Although perhaps all we'll get is people using Check4Change to refresh the page every 5 seconds, which will put a lot of extra load on the server :frown:

Aurion
05.12.08, 00:46
First of all I would like to congratulate myself & you guys for reaching that certain point where we will be setting foot in a fresher & nicer docks ! The first thing I had when I read the first couple of lines in of the main post,I thought why not really doing that ?! why not stop that bull-shit thinggy of those punks...we already suffered & still are with that fucker seba,so why letting other punkass useless morons steal our sweat & breath ?!

I might be over-reacting,I know but let's look at it this way,when I first came here I used to call this might place,my spot,actually it is,it was like a second real home for my non-real life activities,that's why I do want to get this new project done,and done real fast to feel real private...

So after all I'm still happy for that....

....but I think I'll have to explain so I don't get some jerks or bunch of noobs quoting my words & explaining them in their own point of view...I mean with happy that I think it's the perfect time for us to disappear off public,as I mentioned before,I will do it once again & say,it is definitely the 100% reasonable situation here as like any other private place,we opened this forum to have our own place where we can share our own funny toolz,so why not getting to the next level ? why not hover that curtain while we shot that picture ? why we let other people just star at us, I think anon's just explained it real good,and as we already talked about that & I think it's the very right time for it,I want to extra congratulate us for that decision despite being yet under planning/development,but one way ahead is something that I value in my real life,so why not moving it in here...

So let's see what real privacy we can reach,hang on boys :D

SealLion
05.12.08, 00:53
Aurion, dude. You are the man, Yaaa!!:biggrin:
Right on. I'm with you on this.

I realize sharing the mods is important with the public, though what does one do to prevent the illegitimate use of another's mods and tools with out permission??

anon
05.12.08, 20:52
I realize sharing the mods is important with the public, though what does one do to prevent the illegitimate use of another's mods and tools with out permission??

We have been protecting the Mods' EXEs so far, but as you may have seen, s****4 found a way to unpack them, and hex-edited them so that it looks like we coded the mods for him. :mad:

SealLion
06.12.08, 00:37
So now what??

hitman
06.12.08, 16:39
So now what??

now we need to think about a new solution :biggrin:

SealLion
06.12.08, 20:37
I have an idea:

enter into discussions with him re: a degree of cooperation with this board and his.
This might seem promising if taken in the right direction, yes??

Nevertheless, failing that, I have a stash of radio-actively infused nuclear missiles that I'm willing to give to a 'fair cause'. Yes. They are 'infused', rather than constructed with radio-active material. You see.....: Liquid can kill.
Can you just imagine the screaming??

Failing the use of that, I have here a secret contractual agreement with the Russian secret police that they will go after anyone that is in...... disagreement...... with me.

Failing the follow-through of that contract, I have an agreement with the Mafioso that they'll.......'take-care' ........of anyone that happens to........'bug' me.

Failing that, I have here a stash of film and documents that exposes the 'adverse sexual preferences' of him.

and that would be it. So take your pick.

anon
06.12.08, 20:39
I have an idea:

enter into discussions with him re: a degree of cooperation with this board and his.
This might seem promising if taken in the right direction, yes??

That doesn't work, either.


Nevertheless, failing that, I have a stash of radio-actively infused nuclear missiles that I'm willing to give to a 'fair cause'. Yes. They are 'infused', rather than constructed with radio-active material. You see.....: Liquid can kill.
Can you just imagine the screaming??

Failing the use of that, I have here a secret contractual agreement with the Russian secret police that they will go after anyone that is in...... disagreement...... with me.

Failing the follow-through of that contract, I have an agreement with the Mafioso that they'll.......'take-care' ........of anyone that happens to........'bug' me.

Failing that, I have here a stash of film and documents that exposes the 'adverse sexual preferences' of him.

and that would be it. So take your pick.

We may have to resort to those, so ready up whatever tools you may need to get in touch with your contacts. :biggrin:

vDD+wR
06.12.08, 23:27
Nevertheless, failing that, I have a stash of radio-actively infused nuclear missiles that I'm willing to give to a 'fair cause'. Yes. They are 'infused', rather than constructed with radio-active material. You see.....: Liquid can kill.
Can you just imagine the screaming??
Failing the use of that, I have here a secret contractual agreement with the Russian secret police that they will go after anyone that is in...... disagreement...... with me.
Failing the follow-through of that contract, I have an agreement with the Mafioso that they'll.......'take-care' ........of anyone that happens to........'bug' me.
Failing that, I have here a stash of film and documents that exposes the 'adverse sexual preferences' of him.

:klatsch_3:
Sometimes, I really think your imagination runs riot! :top:
But it's good to see that SB-I has contacts to more "convincing" solutions. :wink:


a degree of cooperation with this board and his.
I would dismiss the idea, since this offer would appear to him as a desperate move for us to end this and like an abandon of our board...
Let's hope we'll find another way to solve this damn problem! :smile:

greetz vDD

anon
07.12.08, 00:00
I would dismiss the idea, since this offer would appear to him as a desperate move for us to end this and like an abandon of our board...

That's correct. And as said in the first post, we don't need to take ourselves down to his level...

Plus I know from my past experiences that trying to "make peace" with these kind of people never works.

Tinkle
14.12.08, 09:18
well i am just a newbie and i also know that i am not tht great to comment on this bt still
my view is to create a simple application which wud be must download for users
when a user downloads the rar file of the mod application dont give him the password
bt instead make him open through tht application dedicated to sb-innovation
this hides the password frm the user and also the application b4 supplying password it checks his creadit points in the site
and also change the criteria to gain credit point
a user gains credit points on proper advice
he gains credit points if he creates a thread thts useful or funny or kinda helps increase interactivity between members
and yes most importantly one word or one smiley post shudnt be counted in for gaining points
also create polls on front page of home making user tempt to vote and make him find things
from net which he can pass on to us as nice information
also keep a section where user can actually post there applications and make it free so tht u can gain sum funds frm his beta work
thus it helps all
:smile: though this is just a suggestion i know u guys r busy and do lot of coding and u r wory is absolutely tru tht p2p is free bt none of these rules wud actually effect p2p it will make user increase intereaction and no need to wory about password being taken away
so everybody wins
and ya do reply abt what u think this is first time i am in sum creative disscussion so excited:biggrin:

SealLion
14.12.08, 10:09
To the staff: I have an idea that may help re: protecting the mods, though I have absolutely no idea if it'll work.

I came across this piece of software while cruising the net.

Here is some brief info:


VMProtect

It is a new generation of software protection. Protected parts of code are executed on a virtual machine which makes it really difficult to analyze and crack the protected software. The built-in disassembler and a MAP file allow you to quickly select the necessary parts of the code protected against cracking.
Supported compilers:

* Delphi
* Borland C Builder
* Visual C/C++
* Visual Basic (native)
* Virtual Pascal

Supported formats (x32 and x64):

* EXE
* DLL
* BPL
* OCX
* SYS

Supported operating systems:

* Windows 95/98/ME
* Windows NT
* Windows 2000
* Windows XP
* Windows 2003
* Windows Vista

Don't even know if its intended to protect other software, though by the sounds of it, perhaps.

LInk:

VMProtect - New-generation software protection! :: Products (http://www.vmprotect.ru/)

PM me if you'd want additional web-link info {you know what I mean}

vDD+wR
14.12.08, 10:16
Hey man first of all, you have quite good ideas so far!
Mainly you're saying that an application has to be used in order to be able to extract the MODs from the .RAR files.
I don't know whether its easy or not to create such an application and if it would be possible, how hard would it be to crack that system?? (I hope its hard enough :biggrin:)

On your other idea i can agree too. But changing the criteria for gaining CP could be very difficult to realize, actually. Maybe a Mod, should reply to this suggestion, if the board software can be customized in that way!
The only problem, i see atm, could be that those sections where you arent suppposed to get CP's might suffer of inactivity.
Those were my few thoughts on that. :wink:

greetz vDD

EDIT: Hey SL, iI see you were a bit faster in typing. :wink: If it would be possible to use VMProtect, then maybe the two methods could be combined. So an app could be created thats might be protected with VMP.

SealLion
14.12.08, 16:39
Ya. I liked Austin's idea too. I think he's got an interesting idea there as well.

Tinkle
14.12.08, 17:13
well if that idea is difficult to implement i think we can opt for little measure called as sign to use
well u guys must be aware of clients like garena which r used for playing online games now here is the real deal ppl can get shu mod frm other sites bt how abt if they cant use them
well my idea is if u guys have created shu mod or other mods it wont be difficult to embed a small code which make it compulsory to signup here b4 using and to go little edge in this as an update we can create a client which saves a log file time to time tht log file will be used to check the activity of the respective user when ever a user uses one of SBI,s mods the client created by sbi which was downloaded by user will check for update a namesake update it will check whther he has been active ly using his account in SBI or not
if ans is not account is automatically pruned

so in short it doesnt matter where u take mods from u must come here to register use and contribute
coz if u register and dont contribute and client states tht u dont use accoutn regularly pruning is automatic thus making user little scared and responsible towards product of sb mods
:smile:
but in both cases creating a client will be important its not necessary tht client luk gud bt surely it is must tht it cant be tweaked
:cool2::cool2:
the approach is exactly followed by sum antivirus companies to keep check on the genuines of keys tht ppl use to activate software only difference if we use it we use it in a little low profile manner bt proving more effective

anon
14.12.08, 19:13
@austin414: first of all, it doesn't matter if you're "not that great to comment on this". That isn't true, because everyone's ideas are welcome. :smile:

If I understand correctly, you're talking about not giving users the password directly, but making them unpack and use them through a kind of "launcher", which before doing the former, will check how many credits the user has at SB-I before proceeding, right?

(We have had a similar credit system in the past - basically it's still there, but it doesn't cost anything to download attachments. Users gained 1 credit for every 2 posts or thread, and 2 credits for receiving a positive rep. Every attachment costed 2 credits. This system has been removed, because it didn't make too much sense to force someone to post to then download our mods.)

I was reminded a bit of Valve's Steam, where you have to log in to the service first to be able to play the games. Where they were unpacked to wasn't a secret, because trying to run their EXEs directly would result in Steam running first, and asking you to log in. You couldn't play if you were not logged in. (Although some time after that, Steam "emulators" that would allow you to play the games without having the program installed at all appeared...)

Regarding pruning inactive users, I think we shouldn't do that until some years have passed, at least...

My opinion is that your method may work if it was well-implemented, and we got a dedicated login server just for it. In the other hand, checking how many CPs a user has before giving him access to some of the mod's features, or the mods at all, would essentially be re-introducing the credit system - and as I said before, it makes little sense to force people to post. But the launcher idea itself is nice, because this mod stealer couldn't publish SB-I's launcher in his site, as you'd need to be a SB-I member to log in to it, and also couldn't post the unpacked mods alone, as if the system was implemented like Steam's, they'd still need you to log in. And as this idiot has no coding/cracking skills (he's just a script kiddie with access to unpackers), there'd be no way for him to get around it. :biggrin:

@SealLion: VMProtect is already crackable :frown:

czullo
16.12.08, 21:29
I just want to L33H please don't kick me from this board :P I have no money but i can spam spam spam ;)

But seriously, it could be great to clean out database, i can bet that is a lot of empty accounts witch only stealing mods, second thing it could be good to some fresh mods like utorrent 1.9 premiere will be only for Premium ( or whatever it call ) users ( but please let me in ;) ) and after couple of days(weeks) it will be accessible to other users so seba or 00de will get it sooo later ;) Better smaller and good community than large CHEAT SPAM and PSYHOPATH community ;) Regards to Admins, Coders and Mods for all eford you take in this board.

anon
16.12.08, 21:48
second thing it could be good to some fresh mods like utorrent 1.9 premiere will be only for Premium ( or whatever it call ) users ( but please let me in ;) ) and after couple of days(weeks) it will be accessible to other users so seba or 00de will get it sooo later ;)

I think that alone would make no difference - the "premium users" you mention would get the mods before anyone else does, but when they're released to the public, it'd be as easy as it is now to steal them... :frown:

czullo
16.12.08, 23:21
Then hell burn them in the hell, and don't give him access. Only last mod for example if utorrent 1.8 is the newest, public can only get 1.7 etc...

anon
16.12.08, 23:35
There'd be no reason for the public to use our mods then, if they're always one version behind the latest one - specially if someone else starts modding the latest builds and freely offers them for download...

rom08
16.12.08, 23:39
I think that the main problem is that when you search for mods on google ,SB-innovation appears really far in the results(for Shu mod search the board appears in number 37 page 4 in google).If you were appearing in second or third result your number of visits will increase and your money problem should be solve.Maybe you can call for donation to solve the problem for a short time before finding another solution.

anon
16.12.08, 23:41
I think that the main problem is that when you search for mods on google ,SB-innovation appears really far in the results.

That's another problem, too. We're currently taking measures to solve this.

rom08
18.12.08, 11:45
I rhink another problem is the protection of your files.Of course you try to protect your work but first it doesn't work(your mods are still stolen) and second even if you say it's not trojan some antivirus detect your file like one.It can reallyrefrain some people.If you don't know the board your trust more your antivirus than a moderator from an unknown board.The problem doesn't happen with Seba's stolen files so neewbies might trust him more than you.
Just to say if you want more people and more participation you have to make it simple.Be one of the first in google search,just need registration and then a download link for mod.
Juste simple and easy that's the better way in my opinion.

anon
18.12.08, 16:11
I rhink another problem is the protection of your files.Of course you try to protect your work but first it doesn't work(your mods are still stolen) and second even if you say it's not trojan some antivirus detect your file like one.It can reallyrefrain some people.

Protecting the mods didn't always fail - the first versions of Butcho's SBI-Leecher eMule mod that were put up in s**a's blog, for example, couldn't be unpacked at the time, and therefore were no different that the ones you could download from here (I think he changed the .txt so that it looks like Butcho coded the mod for him though, but this is all he could do).


If you don't know the board your trust more your antivirus than a moderator from an unknown board.The problem doesn't happen with Seba's stolen files so neewbies might trust him more than you.

That's correct. His uTorrent mods aren't packed, because they're 100% stolen code from here anyway, and therefore no antivirus will really pick them up as a false positive.
Same goes for the other mods that he could manage to unpack and steal. Because they've been unpacked, the EXE signature that caused the false alarms is no longer there, and AV scanners don't pick them up.

This is also a problem - noobs that don't know what a false positive is, or that don't trust our board because of having had one with its mods in the past, will go for the unpacked/stolen ones...


Just to say if you want more people and more participation you have to make it simple.Be one of the first in google search,just need registration and then a download link for mod.

Well, right now we may not be between Google's first results, but downloading the mods is just as simple: register, go to the mod's respective thread and download the attachment...

Aurion
19.12.08, 06:26
It's kinda true anon,that most of our well packed/coded mods get stolen real easy but on the other hand,I guess we just get honored having out mods well known by most of the Earth's residents even if posted in other places than SB-I which proves that we are ruling the field of modded BT clients,not to mention that we are 100% the source for them....so IMO the most crappy part about this,is that we still can't manage to get it controled but hopefully the secure locking methods would work sooner or later!

sarutobi
19.12.08, 17:38
Well, as rom08 said a big problem is that the forum do not appears at first position when googling. So all the users who seach rapidly for a mod, go and download from that shit blog.

As I said some time ago, I think that we should increase the use of our blog. There are some people who just need the rar file with the mod and don't want to create an account on any forum. So putting the files on a blog where people can freely download and adding a link to the forum where they can post their opinion, bug, etc could be a good solution, IMHO. This also can solve the problem of tons of 0-posters-unuseful-users.

anon
19.12.08, 17:39
I guess we just get honored having out mods well known by most of the Earth's residents even if posted in other places than SB-I which proves that we are ruling the field of modded BT clients

Yes, that's true, and I have mentioned it in my first post :top:


Also, our public image risks getting damaged if copies of our programs going by different names, to the point of being unrecognizable, keep on appearing and circulating around the net. (Although this somehow flatters us, as it'd mean our work is so good that attempting to copy it is the only alternative.)

But if this stealer changes the mods so that no reference to our board is no longer visible, it's harder if possible at all to know we're the original source...

jolas
20.12.08, 00:29
Private! :wosautos15: :top2: Private and friendly!


ldont ever stop the releases we really need them!

Tinkle
20.12.08, 04:49
i think blogging will help reduce theft of mods a lot
t at the same time i also believe sum way mods must be locked so tht they can only be taken from us or SB-I in short
but at the same time problem in googling is its more dependent on search query and request
so making sure we only come first always is quiet little hard
bt we can make smaller blog on googles blogspot since google give priorites to their products which may kinda increase our enhanced search results in google

anon
20.12.08, 16:32
... i also believe sum way mods must be locked so tht they can only be taken from us or SB-I in short

I think that could only be archieved with a login-system, which isn't possible to implement at the moment, and even so it wouldn't prevent you from downloading the mods from somewhere else - but just from using their special features.


but at the same time problem in googling is its more dependent on search query and request
so making sure we only come first always is quiet little hard

That's true, Google search results are very "sensitive" regarding your choice and placement of words. For example, googling "emule leecher mods" puts us in the 5th result, while "emule no-upload mods" takes us up to the 3rd result. Site placement also varies from country to country - I have been told that in the german Google (google.de) our board is at different positions than in my country's, even for the same query.


bt we can make smaller blog on googles blogspot since google give priorites to their products which may kinda increase our enhanced search results in google

I didn't know this, thanks. :top:

jolas
20.12.08, 17:40
a tip:
i used to use the hellwich i think this was the name, or something similiar, they had a system in wich you had to put a login over at shumod, and the site was private.

maybe this could work here. dunno.

anon
20.12.08, 17:43
The site itself wasn't so private - everyone could register - but yes, your access to special features (namely no-upload and no download report to peers) depended on your user class, which was checked by logging in to the site from inside the mod. But we're not able to code a login-system like that at the moment.

jolas
20.12.08, 18:00
some toughts: forgot to say it before:

recepie to make sb very active, maybe more famous ( not sure its a good thing)

1º if we could be private, we would be allowed to:

1.1- maybe have an open all day chat box
this would make ppl happier, and more active, we cant talk to each other, pm aint enough, and somethimes that makes , prevents ppl for making friendships, and meet here, they eventually spread to another places, like irc, and so on.

2º- Being private, would be easier, to control someone from stealing your work, or lurk around this place, trying to find ppl who use rm and others.

3º- a new theme, oh all black! that would be so cool!!!

4ºmy opinion, some of the most smart ppl around the torrent comunity are working in here, breaking code, all day, and making the life miserable to sct dildos colletors owners. :-D
but besides all this, we need a female touch, this is like a Rock, a very huge rock whit no one to work on her.

very goods, coders, and members, but no one, to work in making this more appelling ( ex: everyone likes gft. but everyone says it looks like hell.

= prettier + private + chatbox + someothers stuff (dunno) its the recepie, at least its my once again very drunk oppinion.

anon
20.12.08, 18:09
We already have a shoutbox, but it's accessible to Advanced Users and higher only. If we went private, yes, it's assumed that invitees who could manage to get an invite know correct forum etiquette to some degree, so it could be made available to "normal" users too. :thumbsup:
You can see that at some other forums shoutboxes are public and therefore everyone spams them, or thinks they're search fields... :rolling_eyes:

Also, this board install has been heavily customized, so new skins can't be directly added without having undergone important modifications as well. This is why we have just two skins at the moment - orange and blue, warm and cold :tongue:

rom08
23.12.08, 10:36
I have made the same research in google than you Anon but I'm in France:
- emule leecher mods puts you in 10
- emule no-upload mods put you in 7 but with Spike 2+ no upload in title :"eMule 0.48a Spike2+ (No Upload) - SB-Innovation"

anon
23.12.08, 16:22
Interesting search result difference - "emule leecher mods" is 5th here with our doorway page as the result, and "emule no-upload mods" in the 3rd place, with the Spike2+ mod too. If you search "emule leecher" here, SB-I is in the 12th result with the doorway page again, but in Google Images the SBI-Leecher's splash screen is first. :biggrin:

rom08
23.12.08, 16:30
I made the search for emule leecher SBI is 20th but it is the same for google images.I think it is not good to be in the second page of search result after to be 4th or 8th shoudn't be a problem.
On yahoo search for emule leecher(It is used in france) I stop searching your place at rank 130 and you still weren't there

anon
23.12.08, 17:31
I once read in a Web marketing book that being between the first 8 results is the best...

And got tired of searching for SB-I inside the Yahoo search results and not finding it after the 10th page, too. :redface:

Aurion
23.12.08, 22:55
I once read in a Web marketing book that being between the first 8 results is the best...

And got tired of searching for SB-I inside the Yahoo search results and not finding it after the 10th page, too. :redface:

Yeah it was kinda cool to see SB-I results in the first entries in the first pages of Google but it's still exhausting to see no results within first pages,that just pisses me off!

Tinkle
24.12.08, 14:42
well working to improve search engine queries to improve results by us coming first is damn difficult
i think we must try to establish blogs in general category and spread our name through them will most probably help the cause
ya in case of yahoo yahoo search is the worst search engine ever
u nevr get results u expect
experiment in google only since once we find way out to come first in google search i think we can easily make name for ourselves and become dominant
:D

anon
24.12.08, 18:03
You're right with that - we have to love Google, because everyone else does. :tongue:

And our blog posts have have helped a lot indeed - its PageRank is even higher than the board's itself (2 vs 1).

Aurion
26.12.08, 01:20
You're right with that - we have to love Google, because everyone else does. :tongue:

And our blog posts have have helped a lot indeed - its PageRank is even higher than the board's itself (2 vs 1).

and that's a good credit for us tho! it's all about the word of the mouth!

CindyVer
11.02.09, 11:50
I'm still puzzled why a leecher board would like to be famous?
It goes against everything a cheater should do. Do any of you use the same name on a tracker as they do here? Does anyone on the trackers know who you really are here?
Most smart cheaters are never even very active on a tracker because of the fact one small mistake can get you bannedand make all your efforts go to waist when they catch you.

What's the advantage to be one of the first results when googling for leechermod, or cheatermod? To get them away from seba? That will not help, as long as you can't stop him from stealing your mods. instead of trying to get as much attention as possible to get people to register here instead of at seba's you need to stop the stealing.

If you can do that people who want the mods will automatically come to this place, no matter how hard it is to find.
That's when sb-i will be truly famous in a good way ... a board where coders are working their ass off to provide first-class mods that can not be found elsewhere. You won't be on first place when Googling, but you will be know for quality of mods/members and board ... not for quantity and number of mod-downloads, number of members, etc ... which is meaningless.

shoulder
11.02.09, 14:22
But there's the question, how to stop Seba from stealing?

It's not that easy than most of you think.
If a mod is released he will steal it, he even posts them unedited if he isn't ablte to edit them.
Be sure we think of ways to stop him, but we need to find one which will really work and doesn't frustate our honest members. :wink2:

anon
11.02.09, 16:50
...
What's the advantage to be one of the first results when googling for leechermod, or cheatermod? To get them away from seba? That will not help, as long as you can't stop him from stealing your mods. instead of trying to get as much attention as possible to get people to register here instead of at seba's you need to stop the stealing.

And that's the problem: how? Do you have any ideas? A login system will pretty much always be cracked given enough time (you said this yourself before), a post restriction generates spam, giving the mod to certain members only isn't the way to go.

In the meantime, and if you put yourself on a coder's position, where would you rather have people get your mods from? SB-I, or seba's crappy blog where he unpacks and hex-edits them so that it looks like it's his work? Believe me, seeing the latter after all the effort put on our mods makes you feel sick.


If you can do that people who want the mods will automatically come to this place, no matter how hard it is to find.
That's when sb-i will be truly famous in a good way ... a board where coders are working their ass off to provide first-class mods that can not be found elsewhere. You won't be on first place when Googling, but you will be know for quality of mods/members and board ... not for quantity and number of mod-downloads, number of members, etc ... which is meaningless.

We're already known for our "first-class" mods - the SBI-Leecher and PrE eMule mods, Faze, Uni-Leech, the upcoming Extreme Azureus and the "normal" SB-I Hack which is updated way faster than Shu's, even though our coders don't have access to the original source, just to mention a few. We also always ask for permission to post non-SBI mods & tools (XdP, ECB, ZZ-RS, mRatio, RatioMaster, etc.) and you'll have seen that coders like umeK or Tr0nYx have registered and started posting their mods themselves, which is even better.

Quality of board & members... if you look at the FAQ you'll see that's one of SB-I's objectives - to give you a friendly and always representative board team. You actually get support for the mods available here, and if someone encounters a bug or glitch and posts about it, they'll be sending feedback to the actual coders, unlike at seba's blog where question-comments remain unanswered.

We're known - the problem is that seba is as well, and he's profiting from it.

hitman
11.02.09, 20:37
dont forget that a forum like this need to be payed with money. without a lot of guests and members we could never pay the bills or do you really think that we could pay the bills with the donations that our members gives to us? äh no we would never pay the bills because nobody like to donate.

making the forum for private invite only would mean to delete 99% of the user database because we would not more need a big server and other things and the costs would be quite low

as usual there are for everything that we are doing reasons and we have to deal every day with difficult decisions its not that easy how it sometimes looks

CindyVer
12.02.09, 11:02
dont forget that a forum like this need to be payed with money. without a lot of guests and members we could never pay the bills or do you really think that we could pay the bills with the donations that our members gives to us? äh no we would never pay the bills because nobody like to donate.

making the forum for private invite only would mean to delete 99% of the user database because we would not more need a big server and other things and the costs would be quite low

as usual there are for everything that we are doing reasons and we have to deal every day with difficult decisions its not that easy how it sometimes looks

The fact you allow every random member to get in sb-i and register is the reason why you need money for your server. If sb-i would have a much smaller user-base of selected members based on their cheating-experience and knowledge, you would have a much smaller userbase and much less bandwidth needed.

By keeping the board public you will never be able to stop seba or anyone else from stealing your mods.


And that's the problem: how? Do you have any ideas? A login system will pretty much always be cracked given enough time (you said this yourself before), a post restriction generates spam, giving the mod to certain members only isn't the way to go.

About spam ... a smaller userbase means an easier job to stop spam. And to be honest ... even with the large userbase as it is spam is rather easy to fight. Just enforce the anti-spam rules in a rigid manner and spam will stop after some time. You could even create an additional staff-position specifically aimed at stopping spam.

As i said a login system can be cracked indeed, but a smaller base combined with a decent auth-system gets you on track. The leakse will be far more easier to catch in that case.


In the meantime, and if you put yourself on a coder's position, where would you rather have people get your mods from? SB-I, or seba's crappy blog where he unpacks and hex-edits them so that it looks like it's his work? Believe me, seeing the latter after all the effort put on our mods makes you feel sick.

You are absolutely right, but mod-stealing has been going on for as long as cheater-mods exist. Even sb-i has been guilty in the past for doing so. For a while now you are indeed not doing it anymore and have a healthy ethical policy, and that's why this mod stealing is becoming a much bigger issue. As a said earlier ... it's the support and the quality of your board that will get people to get their mods here and not at seba's or elswhere.

With the open-door policy sb-i has now you will never be able to stop the stealing.




We're already known for our "first-class" mods - the SBI-Leecher and PrE eMule mods, Faze, Uni-Leech, the upcoming Extreme Azureus and the "normal" SB-I Hack which is updated way faster than Shu's, even though our coders don't have access to the original source, just to mention a few. We also always ask for permission to post non-SBI mods & tools (XdP, ECB, ZZ-RS, mRatio, RatioMaster, etc.) and you'll have seen that coders like umeK or Tr0nYx have registered and started posting their mods themselves, which is even better.

Yes I agree ... sb-i turned has become a fine board over time, but many people still have the image of the sb-i mod-stealers and you should keep in mind that most cheaters aren't honorable people, they have no loyalty whatsoever and wil screw you over for a dime.


We're known - the problem is that seba is as well, and he's profiting from it.

Yes you are, but look at the core of sb-i ... it's always the same people posting. Most posts are n00b-questions, some random news items and some trivial issues. If you would close your doors and keep the core members and keep focus on the quality of the board your member-base will become much tighter and people will become loyal to this board, even if they are cheating.

Aurion
12.02.09, 15:48
Honestly,I wasn't gonna reply back to your post,but anyway I just wanted to drop my tiny words about this scenario.

Some of your words I have to agree with specially that part that we got to do an extreme something to stop this from happening & tho we stop worrying about that jerk,seba,but as the guys above said,we actually discussed that even in the elite section for many times since months ago but the solution was obvious & everybody knows that,it's just a matter of time till seba get fucked up,believe he will,a time will come when he won't be able to steal our mods as they are,he will have to add his touch which he already doesn't have,so he's most likely screwed,so it's a matter of time.

Another interesting part of your words,that goes "core of sb-i,same people posting ...etc" ... actually I have to agree with you,but not completely,because we all have noticed a slight increased number of new posters/members who really liked the idea of being here for rather than getting the new hotshot mod,so this also lies behind time ... I remember,when I first got in here,I really didn't have the intention to be part of this community,I just forgot where I put my old rusty shu mod after a PC crash,so down to google,picked first pages (weren't that first anon :P) & found SB-I then after I got my mod,I thought,this board is interesting but lacks of active members,so why not become one ?! so I believe that those same old active ones,have increased significantly thru time as we can notice,and we're having same known posters by in larger scale.

anon
12.02.09, 19:01
The fact you allow every random member to get in sb-i and register is the reason why you need money for your server. If sb-i would have a much smaller user-base of selected members based on their cheating-experience and knowledge, you would have a much smaller userbase and much less bandwidth needed.

By keeping the board public you will never be able to stop seba or anyone else from stealing your mods.

By keeping it private even less people would see the ads used to financially support the server. There'd be less bandwidth usage - and also less money to pay the chunk that's used with.


About spam ... a smaller userbase means an easier job to stop spam. And to be honest ... even with the large userbase as it is spam is rather easy to fight. Just enforce the anti-spam rules in a rigid manner and spam will stop after some time. You could even create an additional staff-position specifically aimed at stopping spam.

That's what we're doing right now. Spamming can only decrease but it'll never stop because there are people that simply don't read the rules, or think flashing X posts is the best way to see what's behind hidden content blocks - again, perhaps you saw, or not, what happened with PrE? Spamming would persist even with the post limit set to 10. Is it that hard to get 10 posts without spamming? Just reply to some of the threads in the Inquire Around section.


As i said a login system can be cracked indeed, but a smaller base combined with a decent auth-system gets you on track. The leakse will be far more easier to catch in that case.

What number would a "smaller base" be?

If we make the site invite-only and hard to get in, people will resort to seba or any other mod leaker (should they manage to leak the mods), and with good reason - they'll be giving people the mods they otherwise can't get their hands on, and the wheel of newbies faking at mB/s and tracker admins updating their scripts would keep on spinning.


You are absolutely right, but mod-stealing has been going on for as long as cheater-mods exist. Even sb-i has been guilty in the past for doing so. For a while now you are indeed not doing it anymore and have a healthy ethical policy, and that's why this mod stealing is becoming a much bigger issue. As a said earlier ... it's the support and the quality of your board that will get people to get their mods here and not at seba's or elswhere.

With the open-door policy sb-i has now you will never be able to stop the stealing.

...

Yes, that's correct - we now have a strict policy of not posting any mod/tool without the coder's permission.

Regarding support and quality - didn't I talk about that before? You actually get support here, unlike at seba's blog.


Yes you are, but look at the core of sb-i ... it's always the same people posting. Most posts are n00b-questions, some random news items and some trivial issues. If you would close your doors and keep the core members and keep focus on the quality of the board your member-base will become much tighter and people will become loyal to this board, even if they are cheating.

I don't agree. Maybe there are "noob" (nobody knows everything) questions, but if new releases, invite trading, news/discussion threads, software, hardware and network posts and jokes/funny pics and clips are "trivial issues"...

Now, if we "closed our doors"... that would be always the same people posting.

CindyVer
13.02.09, 10:56
That's what we're doing right now. Spamming can only decrease but it'll never stop because there are people that simply don't read the rules, or think flashing X posts is the best way to see what's behind hidden content blocks -

With a smaller but dedicated user-base there would be no need for the use of the 'hidden-blocks'. And about spamming ... be strict. If you ban repeated spammers, people will eventually stop doing it.


Regarding support and quality - didn't I talk about that before? You actually get support here, unlike at seba's blog.
Yes you did and we agree on that. It's what separates sb-i from blogs like seba's, and smart people know that. It's only the 'bad' apples that don't care for support or the work that the original coder is doing, but those are the members that shouldn't be on sb-i.


I don't agree. Maybe there are "noob" (nobody knows everything) questions, but if new releases, invite trading, news/discussion threads, software, hardware and network posts and jokes/funny pics and clips are "trivial issues"...

Invite trading on cheater-boards is a very big risk and shouldn't take place here. Trading amongst non-cheaters is already tricky and risky. But trading with cheaters is much more dangerous. And I'm not even speaking about tracker-admins that chase us pretending to be traders.

Trivial maybe was a bad choice of words. I was referring to posts that are made with the single purpose to get more posts.


By keeping it private even less people would see the ads used to financially support the server. There'd be less bandwidth usage - and also less money to pay the chunk that's used with.

I know what it costs to host a board, and with a limited userbase, a board like this isn't that expensive, believe me.


What number would a "smaller base" be?
It's not me who decides, but sb-i staff should be able to judge who is a contributing member and who isn't. It might be 100 or 500, but I believe the number would be closer to 100 than 500.
If after some time youo see the activity on the board slows down, you can hand out invites to people you believe would fit in here.



Now, if we "closed our doors"... that would be always the same people posting.

Yes, but why would that be a bad thing. It's one of your only chances to prevent mod-stealing (except for the implementation of a 100% hack-proof auth-system, but that's almost impossible).

Rebound
13.02.09, 11:26
You talk every time about a smaller userbase. You would prefer an invite system for our board? Of course this is possible and it's a possible solution. But we want give every user the chance to get access to our mods. That's the reason why we release our mods without restrictions or something. The most users are very nice and they are no stealers. It wouldn't a good idea to close our forum or restrict the mods only because a few users steal our mods... It's unfair compared to other members.

SB-Innovation stands for highest quality, best mods and best support of the world wide web. Every user knows that, that's enough for us.

best regards

Rebound

czullo
13.02.09, 12:06
Its simple guys, there is one way if you don't want to your mods to be stolen by seba and others - close forum and give access only for trusted persons, in other case your mods will be always stolen by seba. there is no other way.

CindyVer
13.02.09, 12:12
Yes I talk about a smaller userbase, because this thread was created to talk about ways to prevent your mods being stolen by others. Add to that the fact I am convinced public access of cheater-mods is not right and has more negative than positive consequences. Cheating was never intended to be done by inexperienced BT users, but that's exactly what you have been doing, by making cheater mods publically accessible. That is just my personal view off course and I know sb-i doesn't share this pount of view.

By keeping this board public you will never be able to prevent thye mod-stealing. People can easily create 100 accounts here without limitation (given they use a different IP). And everyone has free access to the mods without anyone being able to check it.

I also said in this and other threads I believe the fact you are known or you appear first on the Google-search results, doesn't make a board the best when it comes to quality.
If it was that would mean that seba's blog would be the 'best' in case it would appear in first place in the Google search, and it would not be correct.

I believe reducing sb-i's userbase and limiting access would cause many people go over to seba's place to get your mods and he would get a lot more people visiting his blog.
BUT, as time goes, you will be able to keep the dedicated sb-i members and be able to weed out the bad apples and stealers. When you get to the point seba can't get his hands on the sb-i' mods, that's when his downfall will start and people will come to know sb-i as a board where exclusive mods are being made, and it is the place to be. At that time you could easily start allowing new members little by little, so you could still have an overview on possible leakers.

I am just suggesting what I think would be a solution for the problem at hand.

anon
13.02.09, 17:39
about spamming ... be strict. If you ban repeated spammers, people will eventually stop doing it.

That's our current policy.


Yes you did and we agree on that. It's what separates sb-i from blogs like seba's, and smart people know that. It's only the 'bad' apples that don't care for support or the work that the original coder is doing, but those are the members that shouldn't be on sb-i.

You're right.


Yes, but why would that be a bad thing.

Because what's the sense of having a board an online community if we'll always be chatting or posting with/for the same members? It's also about letting new members in and share what they have with us.


...
I also said in this and other threads I believe the fact you are known or you appear first on the Google-search results, doesn't make a board the best when it comes to quality.
If it was that would mean that seba's blog would be the 'best' in case it would appear in first place in the Google search, and it would not be correct.

Yes, that's right - being first on Google doesn't make a site good by itself. We're a quality board because of the great mods and hard work put on it, regardless of whether we are first (like with "azureus extreme mod") or beyond the 25th result page.


Its simple guys, there is one way if you don't want to your mods to be stolen by seba and others - close forum and give access only for trusted persons, in other case your mods will be always stolen by seba. there is no other way.

Rebound has already mentioned why we're not doing that at the moment. We'd be braking down access to our mods to a lot of people just because of some fucking mod stealers.

czullo
13.02.09, 19:42
so you must guys agree with that that your mods will be stolen all time.

anon
13.02.09, 19:46
We don't want the mods to be leaked, but we also don't want to prevent a lot of good users from having access to them just because of a handful of leakers.

CindyVer
17.02.09, 10:41
We don't want the mods to be leaked, but we also don't want to prevent a lot of good users from having access to them just because of a handful of leakers.

Noble intentions, but I don't think you can achieve both.

Ultimately you will have to go for the 'lesser evil' :wink:

Aurion
18.02.09, 20:04
Lesser evil which means after all blocking a large portion of new users who might be in great need of buffering their accounts since they're facing real hard times getting their ratios stable in all trackers with their normal home connections.So after all,you are doing more harm than good!

CindyVer
19.02.09, 10:07
Lesser evil which means after all blocking a large portion of new users who might be in great need of buffering their accounts since they're facing real hard times getting their ratios stable in all trackers with their normal home connections.So after all,you are doing more harm than good!

I didn' say what has to be chosen. Sb-i either lives with the mod-theft, or closes it's doors. I don't say one is better than the other, but one choice excludes another.

You said closing would do more harm than good. That depends from what point of view ... for the cheaters it would be a bad thing, for the trackers it would be a good thing to have less cheaters. The more people cheating, the lower the speeds on the trackers.

Anyway, it is something sb-i staff will have to figure out and it won't be an easy decision :eek13:

slikrapid
22.02.09, 03:30
I didn' say what has to be chosen. Sb-i either lives with the mod-theft, or closes it's doors. I don't say one is better than the other, but one choice excludes another.

Mod theft can't really be stopped just by closing sb-i doors, examples:

1. s*** probably already has several accounts here, since this is his primary source of mods and that means he is in after closing and has access

2. invite system won't work because anyone who has something interesting to offer will get inside eventually

3. anyone who is inside can post the mods on some blog/forum/RS to help others who can't get in

4. smaller user base won't pay for the server costs

5. imposing restrictions goes against the 'free to all' principle

only thing thats left is to protect the code so it can't be unpacked and manipulated + modify the protection after every mod update, s*** maybe isn't skilled in programming but he could have friends that are


maybe the best way to let people know where the quality mods are really from is to advertise this site as much as possible - make an official statement about this site and post it on different forums/blogs... maybe arrange it to be a 'sticky' with mods; spread the word so to speak and also warn users about impostors who give no support and profit from stealing




The more people cheating, the lower the speeds on the trackers.

people with high upload speeds don't have to bother with cheating only to risk their account so speeds won't suffer much

CindyVer
23.02.09, 11:29
Mod theft can't really be stopped just by closing sb-i doors, examples:

1. s*** probably already has several accounts here, since this is his primary source of mods and that means he is in after closing and has access
He probably has indeed, but with a small userbase it is much easier to take measures to catch the person who leaks the mods.


2. invite system won't work because anyone who has something interesting to offer will get inside eventually
Same as n° 1 and if sb-i codes their own mods they don't really need something interesting. Posting mods here that were coded by others and that are spread all over the internet don't bring any value to the board.


3. anyone who is inside can post the mods on some blog/forum/RS to help others who can't get in
Same as n° 1. Yes they could, but they would be caught much easier and faster if you have a limited number of members accessing the mods.


4. smaller user base won't pay for the server costs
When getting a smaller user-base, server-costs will be less.


5. imposing restrictions goes against the 'free to all' principle
I am not for the 'free for all' principle, it has been done before (cfr. USSR), and has proven not to work, due to human nature.
With that principle (I already explained that) cheating becomes available to the beginning-torrenter, they get caught and tracker-admins realise the extent of the cheater problem and get better scripts and protection against cheaters.


only thing thats left is to protect the code so it can't be unpacked and manipulated + modify the protection after every mod update, s*** maybe isn't skilled in programming but he could have friends that are
Everything can be hacked! Shu mod is the perfect example, and there are many more.


maybe the best way to let people know where the quality mods are really from is to advertise this site as much as possible - make an official statement about this site and post it on different forums/blogs... maybe arrange it to be a 'sticky' with mods; spread the word so to speak and also warn users about impostors who give no support and profit from stealing
Where exactly would you advertise? Invite-boards? Tracker-forums? Other cheater communities? I don't see that happening very soon :rolling_eyes:


people with high upload speeds don't have to bother with cheating only to risk their account so speeds won't suffer much
That's rather short-minded and may be true for the popular and newer torrents, but the more people cheating the faster a torrent dies. And will result in a lesser number of seeders on unpopular torrents, and lesser speeds. The ones with the high speed uploads will have seeded enough and stop seeding, the cheaters will also stop seeding, based on their fake-ratio, and the only ones remaining will be the members with crappy upload speeds. Result: dead torrents, or very slow speeds.

There are a few examples on the internet of cheater-boards that have a small userbase, that are still very active and that have succeeded in stopping mod-theft completely. These boards are closed and membership isn't public, most people haven't even heared of them. The big part of the cheaters don't have access to those mods, that's true, but the people with the skills and the experience use it every day.

They are satisfied with using mods that were created by house coders and new members are hand picked from time to time, to avoid mod theft and to be able to spot eventual leaks right away. I can only say that it works up till now since these mods are nowhere to be found on the web, except on those closed boards.

shoulder
23.02.09, 15:39
Same as n° 1 and if sb-i codes their own mods they don't really need something interesting. Posting mods here that were coded by others and that are spread all over the internet don't bring any value to the board.
I think he meant something else.
For example Invite Trading, like TS Invite for a SB-I Invite.

Also, we're on a system to prevent stealing of the eXtreme Mod, be curious. :wink2:

anon
23.02.09, 16:16
That's rather short-minded and may be true for the popular and newer torrents, but the more people cheating the faster a torrent dies. And will result in a lesser number of seeders on unpopular torrents, and lesser speeds. The ones with the high speed uploads will have seeded enough and stop seeding, the cheaters will also stop seeding, based on their fake-ratio, and the only ones remaining will be the members with crappy upload speeds. Result: dead torrents, or very slow speeds.

That's not always true. Have a look at ScT and its seedboxes that can open dozens of slots and upload at extremely high speeds - cheating there won't slow down speeds for anyone, and it's hard to survive honestly.

slikrapid
23.02.09, 19:19
He probably has indeed, but with a small userbase it is much easier to take measures to catch the person who leaks the mods.


and how would you catch them?
it is very likely that some 90% of all users (100-500, as you suggested) will try new mods, especially the xtreme mod which has the best features so far



Posting mods here that were coded by others and that are spread all over the internet don't bring any value to the board.


It can't be helped, once it's out, the number of copies just keeps multiplying...
But if people are aware that there are impostors with untrustworthy mods they will try to get it from the source or a 'trusted' site (example: if you want to download a program you would go to its homepage or a trusted download site)




When getting a smaller user-base, server-costs will be less.

anon already told you that won't work, and should have the correct information



I am not for the 'free for all' principle, it has been done before (cfr. USSR), and has proven not to work, due to human nature.
...beginning-torrenter, they get caught and tracker-admins realise the extent of the cheater problem and get better scripts and protection against cheaters.


you can't really influence human nature :rolling_eyes:
if a user wants/needs to cheat he will and if he uses a less competent cheating mod it is more likely to get caught
like said before - cheating was practiced from the early days of torrenting and before that :wink:

as for torrents dying, it is usually like this (with or without cheaters):
the uploader and the first batch of users have fast/decent speeds, later on fast users disconnect and what is left are users with poor/average speeds
most cheaters do it out of necessity less out of sport

@ shoulder: exactly what i meant

CindyVer
25.02.09, 12:49
I think he meant something else.
For example Invite Trading, like TS Invite for a SB-I Invite.

Also, we're on a system to prevent stealing of the eXtreme Mod, be curious. :wink2:

But the question remains...where will you do this trading? No trading board will allow you to trade a tracker-invite for a cheater-board invite. And other cheater boards will not allow it either, so you have a nice theory, but no chance to put that theory into practice.


That's not always true. Have a look at ScT and its seedboxes that can open dozens of slots and upload at extremely high speeds - cheating there won't slow down speeds for anyone, and it's hard to survive honestly.
I didn't mean the popular torrents, where seedboxes rule, but the older releases and the ones with one or two seeders left. Due to the fact that all those cheaters don't have to seed anymore you only remain with these 2 seeders while otherwise it would have been a lot more of them.
Older torrents are removed rather quickly from seedboxes, because they don't do a lot of buffering anymore, so the seedbox-owners delete them and jump on the newer torrents where there's a bunch of leechers and a much bigger ratio/buffer to gain.
-----------------------------------

and how would you catch them?

Lol, if ever sb-i staff need some tips in catching leakers I guess they'll contact me. I'm not going to reveal how to do it in public, since that would be rather stupid, wouldn't it.


It can't be helped, once it's out, the number of copies just keeps multiplying...
But if people are aware that there are impostors with untrustworthy mods they will try to get it from the source or a 'trusted' site (example: if you want to download a program you would go to its homepage or a trusted download site)
Yes, once it's out; But when nothing comes 'out', nothing gets multiplied neither.
Most experienced toreenters and cheaters prefer trusted sites indeed. But most of the people using these mods aren't experienced anymore and will grab the mods from anywhere. It's only when they experience any problems they will turn to the places with support, otherwise they just pick it up from anywhere.


anon already told you that won't work, and should have the correct information
Less users, less costs, more users higher costs. I don't have to decide for anyone, but hosting a smaller dedicated domain isn't that expensive.


you can't really influence human nature :rolling_eyes:
if a user wants/needs to cheat he will and if he uses a less competent cheating mod it is more likely to get caught
like said before - cheating was practiced from the early days of torrenting and before that :wink:
Yes, but in the 'early' days cheater-mods weren't publically available. Seba and co weren't around in these early days to spread mods to anybody.

shoulder
25.02.09, 12:58
But the question remains...where will you do this trading? No trading board will allow you to trade a tracker-invite for a cheater-board invite. And other cheater boards will not allow it either, so you have a nice theory, but no chance to put that theory into practice.
A good point you got there.

But I'm pretty sure there would still be trading.
A lot of the users of trading boards are cheaters. If they know each other for some time, they could offer invites by PM or other ways.
Sure, it wouldn't be as public as tracker invites nowadays, but it would be. :wink2:

Aurion
02.03.09, 17:00
I would quote the part of "Hard to survive,honestly!" coz this is absolutely true man,I experienced difficult times over there trying to get over 300GB using my box,normal speeds & even fakers,but believe me when I say,those silly members with the botscript they're setting up on their PCs makes it even harder for any users even if he/she jumped right on the torrent once get posted to maintain a good buffer,those scripts make them get the torrent in no time,I mean it,just quickly as a thunder,so eventually you find yourself trapped among those huge monsters,so what you do ? stop using any handy toolz,nah that won't be a right decision if you asked me,you must do whatever it takes to boost your ratio above 1 or else you would be crashed by the BIG hammer.

Tinkle
04.03.09, 03:49
To be honest most people cheats to save themselves from getting banned from good trackers
and as far as making sb-i private is concerned trust me it nevr helps since even if it is made private still seba or nyone who steals will continue to steal and worst part will be those people will get more credit for sb-is work since they provide it for free
and as far as finding them is concerned it wouldnt be as easy as people think it would be


Yes, but in the 'early' days cheater-mods weren't publically available. Seba and co weren't around in these early days to spread mods to anybody.

Its true i agree on that with you cindyver but also remember in earlier days not many users had seedbox and also ratio maintenaince was far more easy and fact is you dint need to cheat as such to save yourself u just had to seed little longer

Also this may sound funny but truth is of the large members that join some members really help by pointing out bugs helping to create better hacked clients and yes i would also say it would be unfare that just becoz of some stupid stealers many people who actually been a good user be affected

One thing i am sory to say this stealing cant be stopped completely this is internet there is always a way to beat best security measures but we can do one thing make ourselves more reputed than those stealers
and trust me SB-I has much more influence than SEBA simply becoz people here more wholeheartedly offer helping hand than anywhere else and the reason why many like it is becoz of that if its made hard to get inside the feel good factor will also go away with it

DarkSaibot v.1.3.10
23.03.09, 01:38
No - you can't take away the chance to get or trade an invite from a new, honest user just because of some fucking scammers.

I'm more scared from the trackers admins that "Spy " this community, putting the hands on the fake tools and based from the source code cheating tools they improve scripts...or spy ng members that give infos..make trade..or etc ..etc..

I wish that community to have a restraind number of members and that members to know each other.to be sure that they are not admins.

Registration on forum -> only with invitation -> invitation only the moderator will have,other members only by request made on the moderators.

I don't like that here everybody can signup , check the great tools , improve the trackers scripts and after that whe increase the risk to be banned.

But us when whe have to put hands on a invite whe have to "make a interviw,answer questions, make proofs, show ss and etc etc"

Ofcourse it's only my opinion and my dream( i wish to be more underground) :biggrin:

CindyVer
23.03.09, 08:13
I'm more scared from the trackers admins that "Spy " this community, putting the hands on the fake tools and based from the source code cheating tools they improve scripts...or spy ng members that give infos..make trade..or etc ..etc..

I wish that community to have a restraind number of members and that members to know each other.to be sure that they are not admins.

Registration on forum -> only with invitation -> invitation only the moderator will have,other members only by request made on the moderators.

I don't like that here everybody can signup , check the great tools , improve the trackers scripts and after that whe increase the risk to be banned.

But us when whe have to put hands on a invite whe have to "make a interviw,answer questions, make proofs, show ss and etc etc"

Ofcourse it's only my opinion and my dream( i wish to be more underground) :biggrin:

This has been discussed many times before, but sb-i staff doesn't wish to close down because they need the traffic to get their bills covered.

DarkSaibot v.1.3.10
23.03.09, 10:01
This has been discussed many times before, but sb-i staff doesn't wish to close down because they need the traffic to get their bills covered.

Donations to have acces on the forum pay bills also :biggrin:
Anyway whe must move this discussion to other thread.

anon
23.03.09, 17:06
Yes, moved. :wink:

CindyVer is right, we don't want to make the board private for two reasons:
1. our mods won't be free for everyone if do so,
2. and we won't be getting the necessary ad revenue from guests browsing SB-I.


Donations to have acces on the forum pay bills also :biggrin:

We will never go Shu or ScT-style and ask for money.

hitman
23.03.09, 20:56
beside this

if we would hope for donations to hold the forum online we would probably fail to pay the bill after the first month :biggrin:

im only kidding around ^^

Tinkle
05.04.09, 04:03
hey we dont need to be invite based or as such
we will have opensignups
but kinda a special url for signups
which only members here will know and we can post at places where we find cheaters
there by signups are always open no worries of credit crunches
and also only members who need to cheat get it
though dont know if it would be successfull or no

anon
05.04.09, 18:00
Mmm, I don't know if that would work - new signup URLs would most likely be leaked all the time by the bad members that are already in.

Tinkle
08.04.09, 05:11
actually we dont need to directly send the new signups urls too all members we can actually give them to specific members kinda based on activity longetivity and so on
by givin to specific members one advantge would be even if somebody leaks it on a huge scale finding them wont be hard
and also getting in cheaters wont be tough
and trust me still lot of newbies join forums like nrpg and others not knowing that those forums dont have active working o cheat softwres anymore
so we can reccruit from those place
just a thought if possible to find better cheating forums to bring new members then thats even much better

anon
08.04.09, 18:48
actually we dont need to directly send the new signups urls too all members we can actually give them to specific members kinda based on activity longetivity and so on

I think that's the almost the same as an invite system...

SBfreak
08.04.09, 19:13
Except that those signup URLs will be enough for more than a person.The invite will only bring in one member.

Tinkle
08.04.09, 19:44
Except that those signup URLs will be enough for more than a person.The invite will only bring in one member.
yes sbfreak thats what i meant in an invite u have one member only
but in case if u give people special url to signup then more than one member can use and it will be common for all members so problem of pin pointing at each other wont happen and also we will have a steady flow of new members rather than depending on invites which one gets f he is active there by users will be forced to post and all which would cause increase in useless post in important sections
instead we overcome all these problems by having special signup urls
not necessary they need to be changed monthly and all
just once in a while to make sure there is not overcrowd and instead only cheaters are able to come
though a small measure but still might be effective

SBfreak
08.04.09, 19:48
True but the admins will never think that way:tongue:

nishant
20.04.09, 10:56
I think too much publicity is a bad thing. This will bound to attract the attention of tracker admins and increase the risk that someone might DDoS the site. Perhaps a selective membership policy could take place? Lots of forums have interviews or require invites.

splicer
20.04.09, 11:23
Yes but the problem with invite for cheat forum is where will we give them out? Any place we advertise them we will be shunned.

anon
20.04.09, 15:32
Moved.


Perhaps a selective membership policy could take place? Lots of forums have interviews or require invites.

That has already been previously discussed in this thread.

SomeGuy
02.05.09, 23:28
If we'd stop to release them they wouldn't be leaked.

We don't need to release them, we do this just for you guys and if that's your way to thank us we simple stop releasing, no problem for us.

It's your decision guys.

1. If 99% of us are good guys, we have no way of preventing the 1% bad guys from leaking the betas, which is sad but true. We simply can't decide such things because even having 99% of the users being good guys we have now to suffer for things that we cannot control :_(

2. Think about Seba: he wants you EXACTLY to do this. Think about the look of satisfaction on his face and the disrespectful thoughts he will have knowing he was important enough to make you guys alter your behavior and stop your usual generosity to us users? Does stopping the beta releases hurt us or hurt him? I am sure that, whatever other will happen, he would be very happy knowing that he made a difference in the working of SBI. Please don't give him that satisfaction.

anon
02.05.09, 23:44
Moved.


1. If 99% of us are good guys, we have no way of preventing the 1% bad guys from leaking the betas

Yes, unfortunately that's true. :frown: It's our good users we care about the most, but it's either doing that or nothing. And if it prevents seba from leaking them, that's a step ahead. Furthermore, everyone is given a chance to reach the required postcount by making useful contributions.


2. Think about Seba: he wants you EXACTLY to do this.

Most likely. I know what you mean, but it's not like we're limiting access to the entire mod catalog for users with less than X posts; it's just a CVS-based Hack for people with more than 25 posts.

And we're already on the right track regarding who leaked B17.

SomeGuy
03.05.09, 01:16
I really like this board. It feels like home to me.
It is not natural to me to contribute, but people here are so friendly, and there is no negativity or bullying as is found in other places, which made me dive in and contribute. The atmosphere here jsut draws you in and make you say your vows and even before you realize it you find yourself saying "I do" LOL
I think that this problem can be solved, but not by taking the easy way out of restrictions and censorship.
I know many will disagree, but it is my hallucination that I am convinced of: just be more public. Many mentioned before how the SEO of this website should be improved so that it pops in the first 8 results on the most probable keywords that people would use, and I agree that this should be the case.
If the google position is good, SBI will get a lot of people pouring in, no doubt about it. SBI is a rare gem thanks to its great coders, its great moderations, and many great contributions, in addition to cutting edge mods.
So let's play the devil's advocate for a while. What would happen if more publicity?
1. Trackers will look for better scripts. Defense: I think that this is a good thing. It is the type of competition that will drive cheating technology to be even better. I am sure that many of the coders here have a great sense of pride and satisfaction knowing that their mods bypass the scripts of higher level trackers, and the increased challenge with more publicity will fuel their drive more.
2. More people will use mods. Defense: I know private trackers will worry about this one, but there are things that will be in our advantage. Noobs could get caught, and so the private trackers moderators will feel that they are doing something about it filling in their "quotas" to be able to sleep better at night, and those noobs could be scape goats needed to let smarter cheaters survive in peace. I know most people will not commit those noob mistakes, but I am just saying that those that seem like "idiots" are doing us a favor. Plus the coders will feel greater realizing that their mods are reaching a larger greateful and thankful audience worldwide.
3. There would be a lot more activity on this board. It depends on how you look at it, you can think this is positive or negative. It is up to you.
4. Suckba will be revealed to the masses as the traitor that he is. With this board being more famous, more people will know the illnature of that ****** and so he would feel humiliation, loss, and less hope that the fact that SBI is not that known is helping his lies stay masked.

Dynamic
03.05.09, 01:20
I think post counts will work but I really dont know what number would be sufficient...

SB-I cannot be invite only because I don't think it will bring enough revenue.

Cannot be open because of people like SEBA.

However, SomeGuy has a point about changing everything just for one guy...

It is actually good if you can find out the moles but I think there will always be moles...

:confused2:

hitman
03.05.09, 14:29
4. Suckba will be revealed to the masses as the traitor that he is. With this board being more famous, more people will know the illnature of that ****** and so he would feel humiliation, loss, and less hope that the fact that SBI is not that known is helping his lies stay masked.

well dont think that its only one person that is helping him there are a lot of ignorants out there that are destroying everybody the party. most people are leecher they dont care where they are downloading things, the important part for them is only to download fast and without own contribution. i noticed that in the time as we added the login and seba had someone that removed it a lot of sbi members just downloaded his version and things like this are an epic fail.

and mods where seba cant delete the advertisment about our forum dont have the effect to all the people to go to sbi and signup, a few yes but most part of them dont see the need to help the source where the mods are coming from.

its not easy at all its not possible to make everybody happy but we are not stopping to think about new solutions but somehow the community is destroying themself. seba want only money he gives a sh...... about support or new mods, he can only steal and people that are supporting him are at the end destroying the source where they are getting the mods.

vDD+wR
03.05.09, 20:02
I don't know if this was discussed already (the thread has grown a lot :wink:) but as Dynamic said:


SB-I cannot be invite only because I don't think it will bring enough revenue.
Cannot be open because of people like SEBA.

maybe there could be the possibilty to neither close nor directly to open the board. But as I don't know anything about the finacial aspect of the board, I can't say for sure if it would work. But what if the board, as some trackers too, would be closed for most of the time but on special days it would be open for new registrations.
And concerning the post count limit, it could be done that way, that the low level cheat options would require only a small number of posts (maybe 20-30) whereas the higher level cheat options, that enable a user to cheat even on higher level trackers would require more posts (lets say 100 useful posts).
So that the whole idea would look like pyramid, you know? (the better the cheat tool/ options the higher the post count have to be)

Hopefully I said something new too, and not just revived something that was discussed long ago. :wink2:

Tinkle
03.05.09, 20:09
I have a weird suggestion this is to safeguard members to some extent
What we can do is the cheating related threads we can actually hide from members till they post atleast 25 posts in mods columns
The advantage will be only cheaters who participate in cheating in mods will find the cheating experience thread ,cheating at so and so trackers thread and so on.
Advantage will be tracker staff who dont participate in cheating discussions will never post in mods sections thereby we can make them stay away from cheating experience thread by hiding them.
thus we wont be causing problem to no cheaters who just come here to trade and protect cheaters who cheat and trade
:biggrin:

vDD+wR
03.05.09, 20:20
That's a good idea too, just to keep the mod sections hidden for new members. But I would rather rise the post limit, since 25 is a bit less, I think.

It's even relativly easy to structure the board that way, I think. But a downside could be that because of this restriction people wouldn't be motivated to donate money because they don't want to wait till they reach the post count.

Tinkle
03.05.09, 22:07
. But a downside could be that because of this restriction people wouldn't be motivated to donate money because they don't want to wait till they reach the post count.
i dont think new members would be so easily donating most people who i suppose donate regularly i think are members who are active here rite

and even if vDD u want people to motivate u can give special access to people who donate though it aint a compulsion but still then both people who donate and people who dont get kinda rights not kinda tough too
and post limit 25 was just an eg good limit would be between 100 or so may be more too
:smile:

hitman
03.05.09, 22:34
SB-I cannot be invite only because I don't think it will bring enough revenue.

this is only partially right. invite only would for me mean to delete 90% of the database, that woud reduce the perfermance that we would need from the server and reduce the monthly cost a lot. it depends a lot on what you want, if you want reach as much people as possible you need a server with a lot of performance, if you want only a few hudred elite members a small server is enough.

Dynamic
04.05.09, 03:29
this is only partially right. invite only would for me mean to delete 90% of the database, that woud reduce the perfermance that we would need from the server and reduce the monthly cost a lot. it depends a lot on what you want, if you want reach as much people as possible you need a server with a lot of performance, if you want only a few hudred elite members a small server is enough.

I think what you said is the issue. What do SBI want as a whole? Someone or groups of people will have to make that decision.

The choices will have very different impact on the general population...

Whichever it is that SBI choices I bet most of us will support the decision as we love this board not just because it helps us but we have friendship here. :top:

SBfreak
06.05.09, 22:19
Well I'm in a bit of impasse here:biggrin:.I have a good friend who recently decided started faking would like to join this community.Will registrations soon be open or should I ask a moderator?

dunkendonuts
06.05.09, 22:28
I say, lets go private and make it an invite only site, that should keep what.cd and everyone else breathing down our backs, maybe we could change the name of the web address to and send an email out to all of our members, (what if there is a rat in here)
once we go private, seba won't have a chance to monetize on the great work of you guys, and it could be the perfect solution and secure the fact that any new invites won't cause any trouble, infact we should do what what.cd does and have an interview section for an invite on irc 'what makes you a cheater' 'what sites have you cheated on' 'can you confirm snapshots of all the sites you have recently cheated on' maybe something like that would be helpful.

anon
06.05.09, 22:31
maybe we could change the name of the web address to and send an email out to all of our members

I don't think that would work as expected...

And to interview people like What.cd does we'd need an IRC server/channel and time...

dunkendonuts
06.05.09, 22:35
But would it be worth the effort if we could gather up some people and have somene set up an irc server? while we go completely private and change web address would that work also? I'd volunteer to help with the interviews.

SBfreak
06.05.09, 22:40
No not interviews.....sign up applications FTW....like on PTN.

shoulder
06.05.09, 22:44
With profile links to your most used trackers. :tongue:

Dynamic
06.05.09, 22:46
I don't think that would work as expected...

And to interview people like What.cd does we'd need an IRC server/channel and time...

Wow?!!

We are a closed site now? I never even knew that...

As for application process is good like PTN but will that keep admin away really?

I don't even know if the interview process will work either as they can be anyone they want to be...we are the internet (anonymity).

Just food for thought...

anon
06.05.09, 22:48
You're right with that, but I can hardly seen a tracker admin filling an application to join a cheater forum :biggrin:

SBfreak
06.05.09, 22:54
Atleast we get rid of all those who visit this forum from month to month only to download faking tools....and instead letting the admins joining for free we can make them write sign up applications :smile:

dunkendonuts
07.05.09, 03:48
haha! I like that idea, that way, they won't ban us from our sites anymore. lol!

Tinkle
07.05.09, 05:04
hey anon since most of the income generated comes from users surfing through the site
i think SB-I should participate in google adsense and daily users will click on advertisements there by money is generated without troubles
just make sure u regularly click on links :biggrin: wicked plan but if properly done will get use lot of finance
:tongue:

anon
07.05.09, 17:37
that way, they won't ban us from our sites anymore. lol!

They still will if they catch us cheating. :biggrin:


i think SB-I should participate in google adsense and daily users will click on advertisements there by money is generated without troubles

We already have Google and layer ads, for those in countries whose clicks generate revenue. We don't want to fill the whole board with advertising.

fuzetea
10.05.09, 20:44
But would it be worth the effort if we could gather up some people and have somene set up an irc server? while we go completely private and change web address would that work also? I'd volunteer to help with the interviews.

I think interviews are safer b/c the questions are spontaneous and you can give fake answers to them as well as if it was an application page. Almost everyone on my PtN app was a lie, and I got in. My ratioproofs were all from cheating, and my speedtest fake (I borrowed from a friend).

For example if if the interviewer asks for a speedtest in the next 40 seconds, and this guy comes up with 100mbit down/up, he's probably a spy.

SBfreak
10.05.09, 20:56
We already have Google and layer ads, for those in countries whose clicks generate revenue. We don't want to fill the whole board with advertising.

Yeah but if that will lower the server's costs then I'd click on any advertisment....

Tinkle
10.05.09, 21:12
we have google layer adds i have never seen any adds on our site :confused2:
and i dont have ad block plus and all installed too
shocking

splicer
10.05.09, 21:14
Firstly, may I ask when are sign-ups open here at SB-I, or have they been permanently closed? If they have been closed, how would I go about getting a friend in here?

Secondly, a major flaw to any IRC channel is the capability of using WHOIS style commands, whereby a user may found out another users IP, which could then be reported to trackers. I'm not an IRC expert, but I'm sure that the use of shells, or dis-allowing WHOIS would stop this.

anon
10.05.09, 21:14
we have google layer adds

Yes, layer ads appear for people from countries whose clicks generate revenue.

mirrormask
10.05.09, 21:52
Yes, layer ads appear for people from countries whose clicks generate revenue.

the ads seem to appear only if you are viewing the board as a guest.

:cool:

nishant
13.05.09, 04:21
I don't know if this issue is resolved, but I'll comment on the possibility of an invite system and its effects on member size.

Many people are deterred from private trackers because of the uploading obligations, and many who do accidentially get into high level trackers from a friend in real life quickly die out [ban]on the tracker because they don't want to spend the necessary time to raise their ratio, which would often require strategies that seem ridiculous such as cross seeding, leaving their computers on 24/7.

Tools like mratio make it easy to stay alive on the best trackers. Casual torrenters are the ones who use the tools but don't make posts.

hitman
13.05.09, 20:17
I don't know if this issue is resolved, but I'll comment on the possibility of an invite system and its effects on member size.

Many people are deterred from private trackers because of the uploading obligations, and many who do accidentially get into high level trackers from a friend in real life quickly die out [ban]on the tracker because they don't want to spend the necessary time to raise their ratio, which would often require strategies that seem ridiculous such as cross seeding, leaving their computers on 24/7.

Tools like mratio make it easy to stay alive on the best trackers. Casual torrenters are the ones who use the tools but don't make posts.

a registration on our forum is not more needed in first place if you search mods. guests can now download our mods and post in those threads to get support.


Firstly, may I ask when are sign-ups open here at SB-I, or have they been permanently closed? If they have been closed, how would I go about getting a friend in here?



we decided to close the reg without a date for a reopening. as i wrote over your quote guests can now download mods and get support. if you have a friend that want to be a part of this community (active) you can tell it to us and we can give him an account. if he only want to download mods and is not interested to be a part of the community he can just download mods as a guest.

when we have all details ready we will announce everything

mmmmm
16.07.09, 02:27
Hi anon i saw this comparison and wants you too see it please:

Latest µtorrent 1.8.3 Leecher packs comparison - · Web Files Leech · (http://leechermods.blogspot.com/2009/07/latest-torrent-183-leecher-packs.html)

Wish our mods the best every next time i know u always does your best for us thanks for that.

Shin
16.07.09, 12:05
Oh no, VMProtect again! :icon_angry[1]:
I've read pro and contra, seba modspack seems to be much better...
More clean, more features, more security...
And it's free of damn exe protector :biggrin:

shoulder
16.07.09, 14:09
What do you mean with more features?
The "removed" Ratio in uTorrent which isn't even included for example? :tongue:

If you like his mods more, use them.
But don't ask for support if they don't work properly or if you get banned.

hitman
16.07.09, 14:11
Hi anon i saw this comparison and wants you too see it please:

Latest µtorrent 1.8.3 Leecher packs comparison - · Web Files Leech · (http://leechermods.blogspot.com/2009/07/latest-torrent-183-leecher-packs.html)

Wish our mods the best every next time i know u always does your best for us thanks for that.

:eek13: sebas version is acually ours he used our methods because his methods sucked in the past. this comparison is rediculous. the blog writer thinks only because sebas blog is older as our forum he provided as first this mods but thats wrong because things changed and since over a year you had to change the methods and in the past sebas versions had incredible bad announces that caused a ban. thats why he copied our methods :rolleyes:. we dont invented all hex versions but a few and fixed old methods to get work better because since the beginning of utorrent 1.7 the old way of doing hex mods changed.

just look on the .client files on his page. he used ours but changed the autor to let look them like his files :rolleyes:

mmmmm
16.07.09, 14:35
:eek13: sebas version is acually ours

just look on the .client files on his page. he used ours but changed the autor to let look them like his files :rolleyes:

Yes, i know that anon told me that before and as i said before i'm not coder but trust all of you here so post it here.

Thank you hitman for explain.

EDIT:

he also changed the name in text file into hisname (TorrentProxy) u can see Mr.RM reply .

Shin
16.07.09, 14:38
I don't say that it is better, so it would seem from this comparison. :baeh: :biggrin:
Anyway i will test both modpacks, then I'll tell you what I like more
(and surely i will never ask support for this mod) :tongue:

hitman
16.07.09, 14:45
the packer is to dont let him copy our improvements and new additions like emulation :rolleyes2:. thats why he dont need to use a packer because nobody gives a shit to copy from him

mmmmm
16.07.09, 16:40
# RatioMaster Says:
October 1st, 2006 at 2:47 pm

This is not cool at all seba. I dont know who leaked this and honestly dont care, but what annoys me is why you present this tool as your own work and change readme.
You are a typical lamer.



# seba14 Says:
October 1st, 2006 at 7:47 pm

@Ratiomaster: i never say, that i have made this tool ;-)

I only published it for all, to test them !!!



# RatioMaster Says:
October 1st, 2006 at 11:07 pm

You know exactly what i am talking about, you changed the readme removing the original author and putting yourself in the credits.
Fix the readme in your rar.

Hope Mr.RatioMaster back to develop it again.

anon
16.07.09, 19:05
I e-mailed Leechermods about their lop-sided, obviously biased article. Anyway, they don't care about us, they're already hinting people at unpacking Butcho's eMule mod.

Shin, what do you mean with "more clean, more features, more security"? I have cleaned all the call-homes and stat links from the EXEs, there's your cleanliness and security. seba's Multi-100x and Multi-101x mods are the same, my Multi-111x eliminates the need for dupe mods, which he uses as advertising for "more features" and therefore more money from cash links.

The ratio ("anti-leech protection") hasn't even been there since uTorrent 1.8.

"DHT enabled for all mods"... congratulations, if you forget to disable it on private torrents you may overfake and get banned.

The reason he doesn't use a packer is that when he managed to unpack Butcho's mods, he directly copied the code. We give a fuck about our users, and encrypt the EXEs so that tracker admins can't simply check what's new and put up scripts against new mods, like my NoReport-Leecher, for example. It's thanks to the "stupid, annoying, useless" packer that seba isn't publishing my emulation mods, or has found a way to make a "show as leecher" one - his "leecher" mods actually showed you as a seeder until after months, one of his visitors pointed this out and he removed them from the pack.

Do some search and you'll see how his mods sent &uploaded=000 or destroyed announces until he copied ours.

If the packer prevents some people from running them, well, that's really bad. But so far I can count the amount of cases where people have posted that here with my fingers, and I went to the extent of sending those members an unpacked mod.

mmmmm, he does the readme thing for all mods - and that's when he doesn't edit the mods to remove all references to our coders and board to replace them with his name and blog URL, but if you've been around for some time you'll already know this.

hitman
16.07.09, 19:23
mmmmm, he does the readme thing for all mods - and that's when he doesn't edit the mods to remove all references to our coders and board to replace them with his name and blog URL, but if you've been around for some time you'll already know this.

the reason for this is easy, he dont want that his guest know where the mods are coming from, where the source forum is. he is a money whore thats all. thats also why he want to unpack our emule mod because he can change our url to his own url

BrianBosworth
18.10.09, 12:24
Would it be possible to encrypt or password protect the key elements of the SB-I coding to prevent others from stealing the mods? The key would be in finding the right software that doesn't add bloat or slow the mods down. There has to be a way to do this. :wink2:

anon
18.10.09, 17:38
All packers can be (eventually) unpacked. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to find the crack for that new game or app. And even if we found one that wasn't crackable and had an overhead of 0.001% CPU and 1KB of RAM, seba would still post it in his blog to profit from it, regardless of our names or URL being visible.

drinkingproblem
18.10.09, 19:52
Really? I've always seen seba as a good guy, for a long time i thought he was the real coder of his mods.

anon
18.10.09, 19:53
for a long time i thought he was the real coder of his mods.

Most of the mods on his blog are stolen, as mentioned in the first post. No wonder there's a big "FUCK SEBA" in the Extreme Mod, right?

drinkingproblem
18.10.09, 20:01
Most of the mods on his blog are stolen, as mentioned in the first post. No wonder there's a big "FUCK SEBA" in the Extreme Mod, right?
Yeah, i can see now who he really is :icon_angry[1]:

alpacino
18.10.09, 21:25
It must be sad for you sb-i coders to think that there are several other persons like drinkingproblem who didn't know about seba's wrong doings. At least now it's one less to give seba credits for what he doesn't deserve.

thecoolest
19.10.09, 12:02
As I think We have to make it a perfect things...Like Sending or Getting Mods in Private Messages..& all that things...

Its hard to do...But admin/mod thinks that this person or member deserves new mod then he forware that message it to the person..(with that you can catch the person who is stealing sb-i mods & give out to seba )coz its so less that maybe 1 or 2 persons...r given latest mods in 1 day..

I know its hard..But Although Its a idea too for making it secure..guys:rolleyes2:

anon
19.10.09, 14:20
As I think We have to make it a perfect things...Like Sending or Getting Mods in Private Messages..& all that things...

If we PM everyone the mods, there's no difference apart from the extra work.

drinkingproblem
20.10.09, 00:51
If we PM everyone the mods, there's no difference apart from the extra work.

Make them have to apply in order to get the mods, then you could check their profiles and try to understand what kind of person you're dealing with.

anon
20.10.09, 00:53
We already thought of an application, but it means extra work and it's easy to lie and make you look like a good user. (Just look at PTN)

thecoolest
20.10.09, 10:07
Nope..my is kinda little good..coz when you are sending mods to some ppl only...you have to check it out that it deserves or not..

Elite & advanced member got beta tasteing(if they want)

member got direct get final workings & best working ends..so alot of ppl testing mods will be more great

You/Mods/Admins/Coders choose good people..by their behavior..all that things..that would be good idea as i think:klatsch_3:

anon
20.10.09, 14:20
Isn't that more or less what we're doing with the Member scheme right now..?

thecoolest
21.10.09, 07:25
Its Little Bit more work same as choosing member...But it has less options to stop lacks of sb-i's mods to s***

anon
21.10.09, 13:16
But it has less options to stop lacks of sb-i's mods to s***

Then why using it :tongue:

Unless you were talking about the Member system... in this case please specifically explain how what you're proposing is better than it.

thecoolest
21.10.09, 13:26
Its Little better..It Means ..Person Who posted Some good useful 10 Posts Gets Title..RIght..

But mods is out for s*** thats bad thing..

thats why..If you Implant..that system...(pming 1)only 1 admin or mod like you can send the person mod)

Coz of pm mods tools ..ppls are become more active..all that..also admins/mods can believe that persons things all

Hey Mate its a suggestion...Coz its hard to do it i know..but this is will prevent more than 50% lacking of mods from sb-i .to..s***

anon
21.10.09, 13:27
Person Who posted Some good useful 10 Posts Gets Title..RIght..

That's not true.


Coz of pm mods tools ..ppls are become more active..

Not really - even with the Member system some people switch to "read only" mode after getting the title.

thecoolest
21.10.09, 13:37
Thats true..But As i think with that you can catch the persons who are lacking mods to seba...
Its just a thought mate..

hitman
21.10.09, 19:33
i still dont see the more advantege as at the moment, at the end we have more work to do as we already have^^

beside this we dont have any leak since a few month.