peer/seed ratio and average speeds

[TheoryTactic]

This is about the Azureus sbi innovation mod:
I've been wondering how you pro cheaters calculate the individual peer/seed ratio or the number of peers connected before faking your upload speed. Is there a specific formula? Do you follow a special guideline(s)? I understand that this all depends on what type of torrent (0-day, dvd packs, etc), the quantity of the seeders and leechers and the swarm speed. Can you guys help me figure out how to set that setting for torrents?

Also I generally do not have a problem setting the average speeds in which a torrent should fake upload. But the speeds I set is on the very safe side (15-20 kbps) This is fine, but the thing is I don't upload to the maximum faking potential. Here is what I mean:while I am seeding a good torrent at 15kb/ps the swarm speed is 1.2mb/ps. After one hour all peers are done and I have like 20-40mb fake uploaded . I am staying at the safe side. But I wonder how can I set reasonable speeds. Do I look at the swarm speed and do a percentage of that? Do I look at the Average swarm speed and take a percentage of that? What are the guidelines?
(btw we are talking about a good healthy torrent, one with many leechers and seeders and recently new)

Last question: what is these settings (red circled ones):
http://i33.tinypic.com/28s3mur.png

thanks guys these questions are the last pieces to the puzzle of successful cheating!

P.S sorry if this is in the wrong section.

[SealLion]

...the number of peers connected before faking your upload speed. Is there a specific formula?

This is a guideline that I personally would follow suit with. Its not so much the seed/ peer ratio on any given torrent. more so, the number of peers present on one particular torrent that your on.

You have a large number of peers. Lets say 50/50 on seeders and leechers. Thats a safe ratio to go with. If the speeds are, lets say, over 100 kb/s swarm speed, its a safe bet you can pump up your spoofing speeds as well. Probably over and beyond that somewhat. You'd have to use your best judgement on that one. Me personnally, I would probably pump it up to 75 or so, maybe even higher.

If the peers are, lets say 25/75 percent seeders/ leechers, its still ok to pump up your speeds to a reasonable speed. In this case, if you've got 5 seeders and 15 leechers, its a pretty safe bet your safe as well in spoofing. However, if you've only got 2 seeders {you being in that bunch would make 3}, and only about 3-5 leechers, I'd slow it down on the speeds somewhat. This is where it gets tricky.

I've been in situations exactly where you've had that small number of peers. YOu can do it, you've got to be fairly careful. Though, if your on a shit-tracker that most likely doesn't have a good scripts to catch you, believe me, my friend, you'll be ok.




Do I look at the swarm speed and do a percentage of that?

I wouldn't bother with that. YOu can't really calculate a percentage per se.

If we were to do that, it wouldn' t make any sense to do that anyways. Maybe some do. I would'n't, though.


Last question: what is these settings (red circled ones):
http://i33.tinypic.com/28s3mur.png

Thats the setting that you use to adjust the spoofing speed between X kb/s and Y kb/s. For example: 10 to 20 kb/s; 50-100 kb/s on a per torrent basis.




P.S sorry if this is in the wrong section.



I wouldn';t worry about this. Its pretty relaxed here.

[TheoryTactic]

thank you for the fast reply :D
So as a general guideline:
1:1 ratio of seeds to leeches (50/50) is 75 kb/ps
And up to 1:3 ratio, where then the fake upload speeds fall on the safe side (5-15)
For full fake speeds (~75kbps) there must be 5 or greater seeders (also depends on swarm speed, that's common sense)

Now, you are talking when I am seeding, does this apply to leeching too?

What do you think is the minimum swarm speed in which faking( both reasonable and unreasonable) is risky?

About that picture: if that adjusts the faking speed while leeching, the top one is faking speed while seeding?

Let's say I set the speed on a good fakeable torrent 0-75. What if I set it to 1-75? There should be no long term difference right? Now if I set it to 74.1-75.9 I would get speeds between those right?

Now back to the peer/seed ratio: would you set both numbers to 0 and just watch the torrent?

Thank you for this input, it's very helpful

[SealLion]

You know what I should have really said: ThAT the spoofing speed is actually a case of judgement gained through experience rather than through, using the information that I gave you above, a matter of numbers.

Sorry for the confusion.

Really, it is a matter of judgement that is gained through experience. You can use those numbers as a start for a guideline that you can use to gain your experience to adjust your spoofing speeds.

Others here who read this thread may post something similiar to what I've just said.

Others may post something completely different.

Having said that, it would seem obvious that it is also a matter of personal taste. If that phrase can be used in this circumstance.

You've got to test these things out yourself on test trackers if your a beginner cheater. Thats what I did.

There's a test tracker thread here somewhere in this forum. There's a few examples listed there. Most of the thread is just talk, but there are a few listed there.

Join a test tracker that doesn't have a whole lot for scripts on it. Such as Dem, PeerPortal, even TD and TL{ yes, TL and TD blieve it or not. Dont be afraid.

EDIT: You can use those trackers as test trackers if you like. I wouldn't worry about getting caught there. }.

EDIT:
Trackers I would be careful on of course are places like Bitme.org. they have 3 fulltime staff dedicated to just weeding out the cheaters. The rest are just support staff.
Trackers like that you do need to be careful on. Others like the rabbit as well {thats what I hear anyways} . Including SCT et al.
You can mangage them. You need to know your thing first, though.


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[anon]

thank you for the fast reply :D
So as a general guideline:
1:1 ratio of seeds to leeches (50/50) is 75 kb/ps
And up to 1:3 ratio, where then the fake upload speeds fall on the safe side (5-15)
For full fake speeds (~75kbps) there must be 5 or greater seeders (also depends on swarm speed, that's common sense)

Now, you are talking when I am seeding, does this apply to leeching too?

You have to experiment with the values yourself like SealLion said. Those would be nice base values, but otherwise you'll have to reduce them at some trackers, and at some others it's safe to increase them.

There's nothing better than a test tracker to do this - I'd recommend BitNation or maybe Demonoid.


What do you think is the minimum swarm speed in which faking( both reasonable and unreasonable) is risky?

Yes, it's risky to use the swarm's avg. speed as your fake upload speed, since at the higher-level trackers it will always be very high, and therefore instantly "push" your fake speed to the maximum you've set - all the time. This way you're not really in control of your fake upload.


About that picture: if that adjusts the faking speed while leeching, the top one is faking speed while seeding?

It controls the fake upload speed for both cases.


Let's say I set the speed on a good fakeable torrent 0-75. What if I set it to 1-75? There should be no long term difference right? Now if I set it to 74.1-75.9 I would get speeds between those right?

First case: not too much of a difference :biggrin: It'll fake an upload speed between 1 and 75kB/s.
Second case: yes, it'll fake an upload speed between 74.1 and 75.9kbs.


Now back to the peer/seed ratio: would you set both numbers to 0 and just watch the torrent?

You could, but I'd recommend you do it in torrents with enough leechers so that they can't all stop downloading when you forget to have a look at Azureus...

[TheoryTactic]

Once again, I appreciate your input.
I should''ve been a bit more precise about the situatuion:
I can cheat fine, and on good trackers *knocks on table*; the issue is I am not (or I think I am not) cheating to the full capacity of the torrent. You see my upload speed is crap. Very Crap (we are talking double dial-up). I do not know the Average speeds the other people upload at. All I have is just rough estimates from the users in the swarms. I am not sure if speeds of 100kb/ps are normal or even higher then that. (I understand that those speeds are dependent on a case to case basis, but thats not the point).

I need to know what is the standard safe speed people upload at. Then I can just adjust those speeds on a torrent to torrent basis.

@
It controls the fake upload speed for both cases.
so should I keep them both the same? if I keep them different how will that affect me.


What do you think is the minimum swarm speed in which faking( both reasonable and unreasonable) is risky?
What I meant is the swarm speed (double click on the torrent look below the availability bars and its there). To answer my question I think it is around 50-75 kb/ps (and do this torrent, isn;t one where I am the only leecher).

The thing is, I am always testing my speeds. I am always adjusting them to suit my needs, I just need to know how high I can go (read begining of post).

Thank you for your input

[SealLion]

so should I keep them both the same? if I keep them different how will that affect me.

It doesn't affect you detrimentally, if thats what your asking about.

This is how it affects you:

Suppose you were legitimately connected to seeders and leechers. You are connected to the seeder, yes?? He's handing you metadata that your handing off to other leechers which in turn affect your upload amount in a positive way with respect to ratio. Yes?

The same is true when your setting your upload and download speeds while spoofing both. If you are spoof downloading at one rate and you are spoof uploading at a different rate, its much the same as the example that I just provided.

You could be legitimately uploading at 50 kb/s and legitimately downloading at 90 kb/s while connected to peers.

The same is true while spoofing both or just one.

You could be spoofing your DL at one rate while spoofing your UL rate at another.

Either way, whether legit or spoofing, your increasing your ratio while you are connected to peers.

Also. I don't understand by what you mean: 'should I keep them the same'. If your talking about keeping both the UP and the DL rates the same. Thats unadvised.
Does your legit DL have the same legit UL rate. Thats unlikely. For safety's sake, these should be varied.



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[TheoryTactic]

I got the download /upload part pretty much figured out: all I need is to find out what is the (general) minimum swarm speed at which faking is okay and what upload speeds are considered normal (not while faking, just in general; I can then apply that to faking)

You misunderstood the part about keeping same and keeping different:
http://i37.tinypic.com/2rffo2c.png
according to annon, these two things do the same thing: regulate the fake upload (he never mentioned if I was right about faking while seeding and faking while leeching) anyways, if they both regulate the fake upload what happens if I set one to 0-25 and the other 0-50? will I get speeds from 0-50?

I do not get the spoofing downlaoding part (can you even do that in shu mod?), do you mean download reduction? I dunno, I have no need to spoof my download (other then when I come in as a seed).

Just wondering in theory: using an upload multiplier of 1-5 to 2 is safe (with speeds of a MAX of 15 kb/ps)? or is that like fake upload determined on the torrent?

When choosing the right configuration, should I pay attention to the Average Swarm Rate? If the torrent is relatively new and the seeder to leecher ratio is nice or there are a lot of seeders and leechers, but the average speed is low, should I keep my fake uploads low?

You know the 100% seeder with no download report option? Let's say I started downloading a torrent, then turned it on and started "seeding". Will I keep my old download report or will it be wiped?
I have wrote a small, (I can't really call it a guide), directions on how to cheat (read and compiled from this forum). Obviously a good swarm is a must. What do you guys think?
-Dvds packs are good
-0day 2 WEEKS MAX
-Keep the buffer 3:1 MAX
-Movies, rips and encodes are great
-Fake on big packs Preferable (2gb is suspicious)
-Make sure torrent has a good amount of seeders and leechers (preferably a 2s:1l ratio). The 2s:1l rule falls apart, when there is a fai rnumber of both seeders and leechers in which you can sneak in your fake upload.
- When downlaoding keep the speed Low. When Uploading keep it high.
-1.5 to 2.5 of average speed.(case to case basis)

[anon]

...
What I meant is the swarm speed (double click on the torrent look below the availability bars and its there). To answer my question I think it is around 50-75 kb/ps (and do this torrent, isn;t one where I am the only leecher).

I got the download /upload part pretty much figured out: all I need is to find out what is the (general) minimum swarm speed at which faking is okay and what upload speeds are considered normal (not while faking, just in general; I can then apply that to faking)

When choosing the right configuration, should I pay attention to the Average Swarm Rate? If the torrent is relatively new and the seeder to leecher ratio is nice or there are a lot of seeders and leechers, but the average speed is low, should I keep my fake uploads low?

It all depends on the tracker... for example, at TB it's possible to fake 200kB/s with very few leechers, but at BitMeTV, for example, this will get you an almost instant ban.

I recommend you don't pay the swarm's avg. speed too much attention (since at most trackers it'll always be very high), unless the swarm is very small (like 5S/3L), and even so consider it just a rough guideline. Just have a look at how it's calculated:


How is it calculated?

The average swarm speed is calculated by measuring the interval between have-messages and the amount of data they represent you get from your peers (the estimated download speed column in the peers view is based on that information, too). Then the calculated peer speed (including your own) is divided by the number of peers you're connected to.

Please note that this is just a rough estimate and not very precise for torrents with large piece sizes or when you're only connected to few peers.

__________________________________________________


@
so should I keep them both the same? if I keep them different how will that affect me.

You misunderstood the part about keeping same and keeping different:
http://i37.tinypic.com/2rffo2c.png
according to annon, these two things do the same thing: regulate the fake upload (he never mentioned if I was right about faking while seeding and faking while leeching) anyways, if they both regulate the fake upload what happens if I set one to 0-25 and the other 0-50? will I get speeds from 0-50?

The first one (from top to bottom) controls the fake speed you'll report if you have the "stop faking when the following ratio is reached" option enabled, and a ratio between the values you've set there is hit.

The second one controls your "normal" fake speed - the one used both when leeching and seeding unless the one I've mentioned before overrides it.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1894/theorymr8.gif


I do not get the spoofing downlaoding part (can you even do that in shu mod?), do you mean download reduction? I dunno, I have no need to spoof my download (other then when I come in as a seed).

Yes, you can't fake download with the Shu Mod.


Just wondering in theory: using an upload multiplier of 1-5 to 2 is safe (with speeds of a MAX of 15 kb/ps)? or is that like fake upload determined on the torrent?

With a maximum speed of 15kB/s, a 1.5-2x multiplier would be OK - 30kbs won't attract too much attention. But of course you'll only fake when you've done some real upload. You also may want to stop the torrent when it has reached a 1.000 fake ratio.


You know the 100% seeder with no download report option? Let's say I started downloading a torrent, then turned it on and started "seeding". Will I keep my old download report or will it be wiped?

You start downloading a torrent and suddenly become a seeder in your next announce, all of this without having sent the completed flag... this can be detected.
If you want to use it, only enable it for scene releases you can find at other trackers, and do it from the beginning - add the torrent stopped, enable this option in its SB-I Hack Fake settings, then you can start it.


I have wrote a small, (I can't really call it a guide), directions on how to cheat (read and compiled from this forum). Obviously a good swarm is a must. What do you guys think?
-Dvds packs are good
-0day 2 WEEKS MAX
-Keep the buffer 3:1 MAX
-Movies, rips and encodes are great
-Fake on big packs Preferable (2gb is suspicious)
-Make sure torrent has a good amount of seeders and leechers (preferably a 2s:1l ratio). The 2s:1l rule falls apart, when there is a fai rnumber of both seeders and leechers in which you can sneak in your fake upload.
- When downlaoding keep the speed Low. When Uploading keep it high.
-1.5 to 2.5 of average speed.(case to case basis)

It's a good start :top:

[TheoryTactic]

Ok, I've figured things out (thanks for your help guys). Last and final question before I leave to test my settings out:

I've figured out how to cheat, and at what conditions to cheat. But for optimal cheating I need to be around my computer to tweak the settings. I won't always have hourly access on my PC and I want to leave it working for a few nights, so this brings me to my question:
If my goal isn't cheating to the maximum capacity, but cheating nevetheless what are some guidelines for the # of peers connected/peer/seed ratio. Here is a general tip I have created:
(note the torrent had many peers and seeders (20-30+).
0-5kb/ps and 4 peers connected or seed peer ratio 10%.

or

upload times 1.5-2x. Does those methods seem safe?

[anon]

...
If my goal isn't cheating to the maximum capacity, but cheating nevetheless what are some guidelines for the # of peers connected/peer/seed ratio. Here is a general tip I have created:
(note the torrent had many peers and seeders (20-30+).
0-5kb/ps and 4 peers connected or seed peer ratio 10%.

or

upload times 1.5-2x. Does those methods seem safe?

Given the amount of seeders and leechers in the torrent, and knowing your line's upload speed, I'd say they're safe. Perhaps you can set the "OR having a peer/seed ratio lower than X%" value to 0 - after all, being connected to 4 peers is already enough to make sure you don't upload without any leechers, plus you're using a low fake speed that's hard to detect.

[TheoryTactic]

I've been wondering the total swarm speed/ average speed does it show the speed of the total swarm or only the people you are connected to?

[SealLion]

.....the total swarm speed.... does it show the speed of the total swarm .....(??)


Yes, I believe it does.


0

[shoulder]

.....the total swarm speed.... does it show the speed of the total swarm .....(??)
Yes, otherwise the name wouldn't be chosen well. :wink:

[Aurion]

From what I've read & understood,I guess that you mean you still fake with very low speeds regardless the main swarm's speed being low or high ! You mentioned that the swarm's speed is 1MB/s & you set a fake on 15~20KB/s...IMO this is too low & useless,since you don't have to be that cautious reagrding buffering a torrent that already have very high seeds/leeches ratio + swarm speed over 500KB/s,so I would say that you should set a fake between 200~250KB/s that also depends on your actual upload speed (you didn't mention it) + your download one too !

[anon]

@TheoryTactic:


How is it calculated?

The average swarm speed is calculated by measuring the interval between have-messages and the amount of data they represent you get from your peers (the estimated download speed column in the peers view is based on that information, too). Then the calculated peer speed (including your own) is divided by the number of peers you're connected to.

@Aurion: but he has to be cautious indeed. He plans to leave Azureus running unattended for long periods of time, in which the swarm's conditions could change.

Also, he's mentioned he's on double dial-up. That sounds like a 2kB/s upload speed to me.

[TheoryTactic]

My cheating methods consists of evaluating these factors:
1) Total speed (with average speed as a rough guideline)
2) Size of torrent
3) #'s of seeders and leechers
b) date of torrent

Usually on most torrents most of the time (not always). My total speed is either 0 or my download speed. I was worreid, because I thought I was taking a big risk when cheating. When I went to the colum setup I read what the Total Speed said: "Total Speed of all peers you are connected to . As I look back I wasn't connected to all the peers/seeds; so there was [probablly] some traffic going on, but I couldn't see it. Its still dangerous to cheat with 0 total speed, but if the Leecher and seeder number is high, I should be able to pass through

I always though dial up was 56kb up and down: 56/8=7. 7x2=14. My up speed is 14kb/ps

I won't mention my download speed (unless its an important factor to consider when cheating). Is it an important factor?

Btw, I can't press the Thanks button, because I don't know where that is xD
can some guide me where it is?

[anon]

My cheating methods consists of evaluating these factors:
1) Total speed (with average speed as a rough guideline)
2) Size of torrent
3) #'s of seeders and leechers
b) date of torrent

Usually on most torrents most of the time (not always). My total speed is either 0 or my download speed. I was worreid, because I thought I was taking a big risk when cheating. When I went to the colum setup I read what the Total Speed said: "Total Speed of all peers you are connected to . As I look back I wasn't connected to all the peers/seeds; so there was [probablly] some traffic going on, but I couldn't see it. Its still dangerous to cheat with 0 total speed, but if the Leecher and seeder number is high, I should be able to pass through

Yes, according the Azureus Wiki, the swarm average speed figure is meant to represent the whole swarm's, but the values for its calculation are taken from the peers you're connected to. That's why it's stated "this is just a rough estimate and not very precise for torrents with large piece sizes or when you're only connected to few peers", since you can't connect to all seeds and peers in a swarm - taking apart the aspect that a lot will have other things to do and will reject your connection attempt, the protocol overhead traffic that would be needed to keep connections to, say, 2000+ hosts, would meltdown your connection and disrupt the figure's calculation in the first place due to the huge latencies.


I always though dial up was 56kb up and down: 56/8=7. 7x2=14. My up speed is 14kb/ps

Here dial-up speeds have always been 5kbs DL and 1kbs UL, at least until the last time I had my PC dial to an ISP (those were the times... :tongue:). So as you mentioned having "double" dial-up I thought I'd just have to multiply those figures by 2.


I won't mention my download speed (unless its an important factor to consider when cheating). Is it an important factor?

Maybe it's better if you don't mention it, since due to your slow line speed, tracker admins seeing this will be more watchful for log entries about people having a speed like yours than if you had a say, 300-500kB/s speed.


Btw, I can't press the Thanks button, because I don't know where that is xD
can some guide me where it is?

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6046/thanksms1.gif

:top: